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Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

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Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#421

Post by RandomLensman »

epistasis wrote: post #413
RandomLensman wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU was created in 1993, not sure how at that time colonies were anywhere relevant to the creation. The starting point was the European Coal and Steel Communion in 1951 (conceived 1950, with France, W Germany, Belgium, Italy, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands) which had as an objective to create lasting peace between France and Germany by making it practically impossible from resource pooling to go to war.

The EU is the continuation of the efforts at integration started in the 1950s. It took the loss of the colonies to really cement the future economic integration. The idea that economic integration prevents war has been fairly well shattered by Russia's warmongering. There are often reasons cited that sound good to the public, but these are not necessarily the same as the true reasons that really motivate the actions…

What is your evidence for the point around colonies? Are there any primary sources from people like Schuman, for example?

WWI also showed that economic integration doesn't always prevent wars, Russia recently isn't a great example, because the integration was pretty limited.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#422

Post by TheMagicHorsey »

pydry wrote: post #403
TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken like someone who has never seen the waste, lack of reason, and counterproductive incentives of a highly regulated market such as healthcare and telecoms in the US. Also, if you are not selling in the EU you would never start a high tech company in the EU. Whereas people travel across the world to found high tech companies in the US that are not even selling product in the US.

I was trying to say that you can't boil the topic of regulations down to "more" vs "less". It appears that you were incapable of hearing this message and have responded as if I just said "MORE REGULATION! NOW!"

No. It seems you were incapable of understanding what I was saying ... which is MORE IS WORSE. In other words, the only people who think MORE IS WORSE is a meme are people who think the exceptions are the rule.

Almost always more regulation doesn't work in complex markets. Incentives are very very difficult to get right ... the exceptions where the regulations work are extremely rare. And for the most part people don't get them right.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#423

Post by jauntywundrkind »

andsoitis wrote: post #225
wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's suprising that the US still holds itself as the champion of the free market where it's more a corporate Oligarchy. It's clear Apple is trying to be as monopolistic as possible, understable from their perspective, but it's the EU job to regulate it, just a shame of the US fell so deep.

> It's suprising that the US still holds itself as the champion of the free market where it's more a corporate Oligarchy. The Heritage Foundation and The Wall Street Journal (both American), have been publishing the Index of Economic Freedom since 1995 and don't put the USA in 25th position: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom#Rank... In some areas the US is clearly the leader in championing the f…

The Heritage Foundation & WSJ are both the tip of the spear, driving agenda to let big businesses do whatever they want. Even if America was clearly #1 in corporate freedom, they would never say so; their reason for existence is to commit America to letting big business be less regulated and you only can sell that by making our present stance look moderate or insufficient.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#424

Post by silverquiet »

kbolino wrote: post #416
silverquiet wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author is not a journalist, but a doctor who studied public health issues.

I don't think the author's credentials alter the dynamic at play here.

Would it be better if he just kept quiet and let the health issues he is seeing go unmentioned because otherwise it would make people look bad? Do you think his book is just an exercise in mockery because he enjoys it?

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#425

Post by kragen »

Isinlor wrote: post #392
kragen wrote: post #313

> The single market is, from the perspective of the EU itself, its single most important project. although i am not of course the eu itself, nor do i even live there, i think this is incorrect world war i lasted from 01914 to 01918 and killed 17 million people world war ii in europe started 21 years later, lasting from 01939 to 01945 (though it started earlier in china) and killed 73 million people, mostly in russia…

> probably the atomic cooperation is even more important That's why I don't understand why Budapest Memorandum signatories allow Russia for breaking the security guarantees. Ukraine gave up fully the third biggest nuclear arsenal for security guarantees from Russia, USA, France and UK. To me it seems pretty clear that if Ukraine falls then nuclear disarmament and nonproliferation is dead. And that my country, Poland,…

i agree that nuclear disarmament and nonproliferation is dead. and clearly it is the case that countries that do not develop nuclear weapons will not enjoy westphalian sovereignty as they did for the previous few centuries, but it's not clear that westphalian sovereignty in the nuclear age was the stable equilibrium that it was in the gunpowder age, and now drones have probably made nuclear weapons obsolete, with so-far-unforeseeable consequences for the contours of international relations

it's possible that pursuing the will-o'-the-wisp of westphalian sovereignty under those circumstances will just make the situation worse and increase the chances of human extinction, which (i feel safe in saying) would be a worse outcome for poland

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#426

Post by Sharlin »

carlosjobim wrote: post #417
Sharlin wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US citizens haven't been brainwashed into thinking that their government is their friend, at least not to the same extent as the EU. > Honestly, if you talk to real people within the EU, you'll find that maybe half of them are mostly against the EU. Are you sure these two claims aren't contradictory? Go on, give it a few minutes of thought. --- Let us be perfectly clear here. People in the EU love to grumble about…

>That does not mean the large majority of EU citizens seriously thinks the EU should be replaced with something else. Who are you quoting when you write "large majority"? I wrote "maybe half", and that's my assessment from talking to people. As for the UK, that's still to be seen. The last time they decided to stand on the side of European unification, it turned out they made the right choice – while still paying a v…

And how biased is your sample? Also, of course we have to have a baseline of being even reasonably informed of the cost/benefit landscape. People who are actively being lied to don’t and cannot count.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#427

Post by bjornsing »

I guess this is a good summary from someone with a primarily positive view of the EU.

I’m a EU citizen with a more negative view of the union. Core to my understanding of the EU is the idea that “Europe is a garden, while the rest of the world is a jungle – we have built a garden” [1]. It’s a fundamentally different approach to legislation: instead of thinking about what rules would be fair and reasonable, European politicians start with the end result (“the garden”) and try to craft rules that will accomplish that result. If the rules turn out to be unreasonable from some perspective… “well you can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs”. For Americans, coming from a common law system, this has a totalitarian feel to it. At least that’s my personal feeling.

1. https://youtu.be/ufAHg6hN4OA?si=OaZE89rGTZOtE0Hk

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#428

Post by seydor »

seszett wrote: post #95
redwood wrote: post #15

I understand where the author is coming from and It is important to have a realist perspective on what is driving European strategy or else we will be in denial. I think it's also important to recognize that the west are interconnected in many real ways beyond economic. The first and most clearly top of mind recently is the US defense umbrella which allows the EU to invest on other things instead of defense. Another…

> Everyone is self interested and when we see the Europeans talk about human rights on the one hand but then do big wine and dine trips in China to sell their luxury goods on the other hand you see clear evidence of that fact. I think you're falling into another typical mistake, which is to think "Europeans" are one person. In fact, it's very likely that the Europeans who talk about human rights don't travel to China…

Given how the Brussels controls trade with China for all the member-states, the statement is accurate.The same Commission who waves human rights flags will do all kinds of energy deals with saudi& Azerbaijan for example

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#429

Post by seydor »

MarcusE1W wrote: post #129
toenail wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first and most clearly top of mind recently is the US defense umbrella Defense has to be believable, a 50/50 bet that treaties will be honored in the future isn't. All that debt fueled spending doesn't mean a lot.

As a European I always have mixed feelings when this comes up. First things first, the European NATO members signed a contract to use 2% of GDP for defense and some are not doing that. Not right, they have to honor their agreements. But then why is the US spending so much more than the 2% ? I feel that by and large that Europe and mostly the EU tries to have international influence via commerce. (Trade agreement/or n…

There is no such thing as dominance with trade without a navy. These two always go together and it's the reason why china is building up its navy

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#430

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

pelorat wrote: post #397
roenxi wrote: post #51

I quite like the article as far as it goes; but this begs the follow up question - is the strategy working? Because for all their standards and harmonisation, the manufacturing is happening in China and the decisions are being made in North America. This should be an article about how Nokia or equivalent is approaching the US all wrong and not understanding the realities on the ground. I'd put energy in a similar fra…

If we had comparable energy prices to the USA then we would also have more manufacturing. It's almost the sole driver behind the current economic crisis. Europe is sadly not energy independent like the USA is. It's not economically feasible to operate a large factory in central europe any more, it's barely possible to operate a restaurant (they are closing in droves) -- energy prices are too high.

That's the promise of the renewable transition, it's the trifecta:

- energy independence

- lower energy prices (after the short term)

- addresses global warming

With a huge bonus:

- crushes the evil and collusive petro states

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