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Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

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Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#421

Post by ajross »

seanw444 wrote: post #409
ajross wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> actual systemic racism that pervades throughout modern corporate culture Ooph. The projection here is just too much. People jumping straight across all the reasonable interpretations straight to the maximal conspiracy theory. Surely this is just a bug. ML has always had trouble with "racism" accusations, but for years it went in the other direction . Remember all the coverage of "I asked for a picture of a criminal…

I mean, the model would be making wise guesses based on the statistics.

Oooph again. Which is the root of the problem. The statement "All American criminals are black" is, OK, maybe true to first order (I don't have stats and I'm not going to look for them).

But, first, on a technical level first order logic like that leads to bad decisions. And second, it's clearly racist. And people don't want their products being racist. That desire is pretty clear, right? It's not "systemic racism" to want that, right?

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#422

Post by HenryBemis »

sva_ wrote: post #223
Simulacra wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your second link was removed

This was posted: https://drive.usercontent.google.com/download?id=1jisgwOVMer...

So, the 3rd Reich was not the fault of "white men" that were supporting the "superior white race" but a bunch of asian women, black men, native american women. The only white man was injured.

This is between tragic and pathetic. This is what happens when one forces DEI.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#423

Post by gitfan86 »

empath-nirvana wrote: post #387
34679 wrote: post #277

Here's the problem for Google: Gemini pukes out a perfect visual representation of actual systemic racism that pervades throughout modern corporate culture in the US. Daily interactions can be masked by platitudes and dog whistles. A poster of non-white celtic warriors cannot. Gemini refused to create an image of "a nice white man", saying it was "too spicy", but had no problem when asked for an image of "a nice blac…

There is an _actual problem_ that needs to be solved. If you ask generative AI for a picture of a "nurse", it will produce a picture of a white woman 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or fine tuning that encourages it to do something else. If you ask a generative AI for a picture of a "software engineer", it will produce a picture of a white guy 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or…

This fundamentally misunderstand what LLMs are. They are compression algorithms. They have been trained on millions of descriptions and pictures of beaches. Because much of that input will include palm trees the LLM is very likely to generate a palm tree when asked to generate a picture of a beach. It is impossible to "fix" this without making the LLM bigger.

The solution to this problem is to not use this technology for things it cannot do. It is a mistake to distribute your political agenda with this tool unless you somehow have curated a propagandized training dataset.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#424

Post by SilverBirch »

imiric wrote: post #202
SilverBirch wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, I remember talking about this a while ago about one of the other image generation tools. I think the prompt was like "Generate an American person" and it only came back with a very specific type of American person. But it's like... what is the right answer? Do you need to consult the census? Do we need the AI image generator to generate the exact demographics of the last census? Even if it did, I bet you…

But there are thousands of such ambiguities that the model resolves on the fly, and we don't find an issue with them. Ask it to "generate a dog in a car", and it might show you a labrador in a sedan in one generation, a poodle in a coupe in the next, etc. If we care about such details, then the prompt should be more specific. But, of course, since race is a sensitive topic, we think that this specific detail is impos…

But this is a misunderstanding of what the AI does. When you say "Generate me diverse senators from the 1800s" it doesn't go to wikipedia, find out the names of US Senators from the 1800s, look up some pictures of those people and generate new images based on those images. So even if it generated 100% white senators it still wouldn't be generating historically accurate images. It simply is not a tool that can do what you're asking for.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#425

Post by [deleted] »

PurpleRamen wrote: post #185
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite a hefty percentage of the people responsible for the current day's obsession with identity issues openly state racism against white people is impossible. This has been part of their belief system for decades, probably heard on a widescale for the first time during an episode of season one of 'The Real World' in 1992 but favored in academia for much longer than that.

It's because they have a very different definition of racism. Basically, according to this belief, if you are seen as part of the ethnic group in power, you will not be able to experience noteworthy levels of discrimination because of your genetic makeup.

[deleted]

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#426

Post by rosmax_1337 »

empath-nirvana wrote: post #387
34679 wrote: post #277

Here's the problem for Google: Gemini pukes out a perfect visual representation of actual systemic racism that pervades throughout modern corporate culture in the US. Daily interactions can be masked by platitudes and dog whistles. A poster of non-white celtic warriors cannot. Gemini refused to create an image of "a nice white man", saying it was "too spicy", but had no problem when asked for an image of "a nice blac…

There is an _actual problem_ that needs to be solved. If you ask generative AI for a picture of a "nurse", it will produce a picture of a white woman 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or fine tuning that encourages it to do something else. If you ask a generative AI for a picture of a "software engineer", it will produce a picture of a white guy 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or…

Why does it matter which race it produces? A lot of people have been talking about the idea that there is no such things as different races anyway, so shouldn't it make no difference?

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#427

Post by stormfather »

D13Fd wrote: post #398
empath-nirvana wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an _actual problem_ that needs to be solved. If you ask generative AI for a picture of a "nurse", it will produce a picture of a white woman 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or fine tuning that encourages it to do something else. If you ask a generative AI for a picture of a "software engineer", it will produce a picture of a white guy 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or…

> If you ask generative AI for a picture of a "nurse", it will produce a picture of a white woman 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or fine tuning that encourages it to do something else. > If you ask a generative AI for a picture of a "software engineer", it will produce a picture of a white guy 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or fine tuning that encourages it to do something el…

At the very least, the system prompt should say something like "If the user requests a specific race or ethnicity or anything else, that is ok and follow their instructions."

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#428

Post by vidarh »

wakawaka28 wrote: post #294
34679 wrote: post #277

Here's the problem for Google: Gemini pukes out a perfect visual representation of actual systemic racism that pervades throughout modern corporate culture in the US. Daily interactions can be masked by platitudes and dog whistles. A poster of non-white celtic warriors cannot. Gemini refused to create an image of "a nice white man", saying it was "too spicy", but had no problem when asked for an image of "a nice blac…

It's so stubborn it generated pictures of diverse Nazis, and that's what I saw a liberal rag leading with. In fact it is almost impossible to get a picture of a white person out of it.

And as someone far to the left of a US style "liberal", that is equally offensive and racist as only generating white people. Injecting fake diversity into situations where it is historically inaccurate is just as big a problem as erasing diversity where it exists. The Nazi example is stark, and perhaps too stark, in that spreading fake notions of what they look like seems ridiculous now, but there are more borderline examples where creating the notion that there was more equality than there really was, for example, downplays systematic historical inequities.

I think you'll struggle to find people who want this kind of "diversity*. I certainly don't. Getting something representative matters, but it also needs to reflect reality.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#429

Post by BlueTemplar »

ActionHank wrote: post #361
wakawaka28 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so stubborn it generated pictures of diverse Nazis, and that's what I saw a liberal rag leading with. In fact it is almost impossible to get a picture of a white person out of it.

I love the idea of testing an image gen to see if it generates multicultural ww2 nazis because it is just so contradictory.

This "What if Civilization had lyrics ?" skit comes to mind :

https://youtube.com/watch?v=aL6wlTDPiPU

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