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Culture Change at Google

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Re: Culture Change at Google

#421

Post by skazazes »

the_third_wave wrote: post #374
the_third_wave wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-host, easy. No matter the hordes of detractors who will tell you this is impossible and that all your mail will be /dev/nulled by all the usual suspects (Microsoft, Microsoft and Microsoft being the main culprit here, Gmail comes in second) the truth is that you'll be fine as long as you make sure to configure things like SPF and DKIM correctly and you're either using a smarthost for outgoing mail (ask your IAP…

It would be interesting to hear why the armchair experts clicked that vote-down arrow instead of reacting. The fact that you think self-hosting mail can not be done does not mean others can not do it. If you happen to work for a mail hosting company and feel you need to grey out potential competition that'd be understandable (if fraudulent) but otherwise I do not understand this reaction. Does the fact that others ca…

I'll bite. I am willing to bet the majority of people down voting you are more than capable of hosting an email server. But like me, see it as not worth the potential risks involved.

Before even considering why someone might not choose to do so, I would like to point out that selfhosting email is not even that hard to do nowadays. I spent a couple hours a few years back manually setting up a stack on a dummy domain just to see if its as hard as developer circles make it out to be. It was not. Furthermore a quick search today nets half a dozen docker containers you can spin up that claim to be one stop solutions for email. If even a fraction of them succeed in what they claim you could self host email with one command and an env file. You could even use the dockerfiles as a template to run the software on metal, its all there.

Even with this newfound knowledge, and as someone who tries to selfhost equivalents to any service I find myself using regularly, I would never attempt to host my own main emails. My bank accounts are linked to my emails, my investment accounts, my insurance, my loans, things that I am not willing to risk compromising my ability to access as the result of some sort of overly prideful sentiment.

Just because someone has the ability and knowledge to host their own email does not mean they should or would even consider it.

Re: Culture Change at Google

#422

Post by dns_snek »

sokoloff wrote: post #358
executesorder66 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is calling out violations of the GPL license helping copyright trolling? If someone publishes GPL licensed code on github, and OpenAI then modifies that code in some answer it provides to someone asking a coding question, then OpenAI is in violation of the GPL license if they don't also license their stuff under GPL.

Citation very much needed, in particular if you're claiming that OpenAI would need to GPL license the OpenAI code ("their stuff") in order to provide the answer (as opposed to the lesser question of whether the code in the text of that answer ought to be covered by GPL).

GPL stipulates that derivative works must be licensed under GPL.

Just because an entire industry has their entire future riding on courts eventually deciding that "Yeah, but copyright doesn't apply to AI", that doesn't make it so.

Re: Culture Change at Google

#423

Post by lawrenceyan »

softwaredoug wrote: post #304

It’s easy to have a culture of taking risks when you have unlimited revenue. What’s amazing to me is how timid companies get when there’s limited resources. Instead of making another big bet to get back on the revenue train, they chase trends. Like Google getting caught off guard on AI and now chasing that instead of leading here or elsewhere. I don’t know the answer. Part of the problem is you went from company lead…

> Like Google getting caught off guard on AI and now chasing that instead of leading here or elsewhere.

????

Re: Culture Change at Google

#424

Post by SkyMarshal »

skazazes wrote: post #421
the_third_wave wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be interesting to hear why the armchair experts clicked that vote-down arrow instead of reacting. The fact that you think self-hosting mail can not be done does not mean others can not do it. If you happen to work for a mail hosting company and feel you need to grey out potential competition that'd be understandable (if fraudulent) but otherwise I do not understand this reaction. Does the fact that others ca…

I'll bite. I am willing to bet the majority of people down voting you are more than capable of hosting an email server. But like me, see it as not worth the potential risks involved. Before even considering why someone might not choose to do so, I would like to point out that selfhosting email is not even that hard to do nowadays. I spent a couple hours a few years back manually setting up a stack on a dummy domain j…

Those are all good reasons not to self-host, but none are good reasons to downvote someone advocating self-hosting and providing some useful info about it. I don't get the downvote-brigading here either, especially on a hacker website.

Re: Culture Change at Google

#425

Post by SkyMarshal »

the_third_wave wrote: post #101
SkyMarshal wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What alternatives do you recommend for email? That's my one google service I have difficulty getting away from.

Self-host, easy. No matter the hordes of detractors who will tell you this is impossible and that all your mail will be /dev/nulled by all the usual suspects (Microsoft, Microsoft and Microsoft being the main culprit here, Gmail comes in second) the truth is that you'll be fine as long as you make sure to configure things like SPF and DKIM correctly and you're either using a smarthost for outgoing mail (ask your IAP…

Thanks, I was hoping someone would provide an update on self-hosting too, in addition to service recommendations. I may test it out, thx for the info.

Re: Culture Change at Google

#426

Post by englishspot »

piva00 wrote: post #154
hintymad wrote: post #67

Isn’t it obvious? When the company had 1000 people or fewer yet was printing money, it could of course use Putnam questions or Matin-Gardneresque puzzles or ICPC programming problems to pick the brightest and smartest, and maintain a geek culture. But when the company grew to 130K people yet still managed to hire another 25K in a year, the culture was destined to change, if not deteriorate. > he most incredible and u…

> Nowadays we got employees who bragged about their “lifestyle” on TikTok And bicker around Blind about "TC" to show off how much money they are making. It's like a new generation of yuppies but instead of working in finance in the 80s they are working for Big Tech in the 2010s-2020s. I've been in the tech since the early 2000s, right after dot-com bursting, it's been very palpable the change on types of people who w…

I've been hesitant to comment on this to avoid sounding "bitter", but you're absolutely right.. it's telling that quite a number of folks are so laser-focused on the money as opposed to the innovation.

at the same time, I also wonder if this is a symptom of a larger problem. chasing TC becomes less surprising when you consider how expensive it is to live these days.

Re: Culture Change at Google

#427

Post by [deleted] »

Spivak wrote: post #399
thinkerswell wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an insult to someone who has taken on the responsibility of raising a child. Of course they should be called parents. A man doesn’t adopt a son only to be called his “child raiser”. Stop this foolish line of thought.

You're the only one in this thread not attaching the same connotations of "child raiser" to "parent" and considering one lesser than the other. I don't know what's more insulting, being called a child raiser, or considering child raiser to be off-brand parent rather than a generalization of the term. "No man goes into education to be called 'instructor', they're 'teachers'." "No woman goes into CS to be called 'coder…

[deleted]

Re: Culture Change at Google

#428

Post by sokoloff »

dns_snek wrote: post #422
sokoloff wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation very much needed, in particular if you're claiming that OpenAI would need to GPL license the OpenAI code ("their stuff") in order to provide the answer (as opposed to the lesser question of whether the code in the text of that answer ought to be covered by GPL).

GPL stipulates that derivative works must be licensed under GPL. Just because an entire industry has their entire future riding on courts eventually deciding that "Yeah, but copyright doesn't apply to AI", that doesn't make it so.

Indeed; I think there's a genuine question as to whether the output of ChatGPT is a derivative work under the law or under our feelings of what's moral.

I've read a lot of code in my career, much of it GPL. When I now write code, it's based in part on that previous code reading. I think most people agree that doesn't mean that all code that I write must be licensed under GPL. In other words, they agree it's not derivative. Even if I write a C strcpy implementation that's functionally identical to one in glibc, I think most of us agree it's not derivative, even if I've read glibc's implementation before. Or if someone asks me "how can I write strcpy in terms of memcpy and strlen?" and I answer them with code I write that's very close to glibc's implementation.

Is AI-written code fundamentally different from bio-intelligence-written code in that regard? (I think the answer is uncertain in terms of "how should it work?", not that it's clearly one way or the other.)

Re: Culture Change at Google

#429

Post by trinsic2 »

From someone who got out of the corporate rat race in the early 2000's, this is a really balanced article on how companies change to meet the environment they find themselves in. I'm not sure what the answer is when growth starts to dissipate. Maybe trust the people you already have and work towards downsizing in less artificial way? I feel like the stock market has made this problem worse

Re: Culture Change at Google

#430

Post by [deleted] »

snowwrestler wrote: post #409
thinkerswell wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an insult to someone who has taken on the responsibility of raising a child. Of course they should be called parents. A man doesn’t adopt a son only to be called his “child raiser”. Stop this foolish line of thought.

Some children are raised by grandparents, aunts or uncles, siblings, etc.

[deleted]
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