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Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

cointelegraph.com

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Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#421

Post by kemotep »

obviouslynew wrote: post #319
kemotep wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible that you can understand bitcoin and still not like it?

Sure as long as you realize its simply an opinion and not act like it's a fact that it's bad. Fundamentally it feels like every time these threads open up on HN 70% of it is bad faith, repeat arguments. Don't like Bitcoin's Proof of work properties, check out Ethereum. Don't think that everything needs to be on one central ledger? Check out Polkadot. It feels like so many commenters here put their heads in the sand a…

An opinion backed by mainstream economic consensus but, yes an opinion. I do not need to utilize heterodox models to justify why a hyper deflationary monetary system is a bad idea. I can base this opinion off economic fundamentals and data points showing the negative impacts such a system would have. But you probably understand this, and have justifications for why the positives outweigh the negatives. I don’t reach that opinion and we likely won’t see eye to eye on that point. You probably made this account specifically to push back on the mainstream opinions of cryptocurrencies.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#422

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

AlexandrB wrote: post #406
738292748 wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, there's no need to defend it. Literally nothing would change. I'm just against bullshit arguments such as "any random shitcoin did this, therefore BTC goes in the same bag," or "no! We should absolutely live in a totalitarian dystopia and have governments that track every move we make. God forbid "

> no! We should absolutely live in a totalitarian dystopia and have governments that track every move we make. Ironically, cryptocurrency will usher in governments tracking every penny we spend since it's all public on a distributed ledger.

More likely, so-called "tech" companies will be the ones most interested in tracking every move/transaction, a practice already familiar to them, as they can put that information to commercial use, selling online ad services. Unlike the government, they have invested in the infrastructure to gather personal information about citizens and use that information _for profit_. Nor are they bound by the same restrictions on use of collected data from citizens and laws that can potentially protect citizens against government spying. If a government wants the data from "track every move" it's guaranteed they will, to the extent they feel the need, try to have Big Tech provide them with the information they seek. History has shown they have already been quite successful at getting the information they want with Big Tech's assistance. It's only going to get continually easier as more and more information becomes centralised in a few Big Tech companies.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#423

Post by marenkay »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #416
a_gnostic wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin saved my cousin from starvation. Can the same be said for anti-capitalism, eg. Communism? Nope, because Holodomor.

Bitcoin is more like communism than autocratic regimes that starve people through malice or incompetence. The answer to states that cannot manage their own money supply isn't outsourcing to ecologically disastrous shit coins limping along at 7 TPS. All that said, hope your cousin is safe and well fed.

Because it puts the power into the hands of a ruling class which takes everything? Yeah, it’s like real communism not like the theories…

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#424

Post by jojobas »

AlexandrB wrote: post #411
738292748 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The killer use case has existed from day 1: remove the middleman. That is banks, or goverments. That's it. There's literally nothing else to it. Speculating on its value, while possible, has nothing to do with its purpose.

And yet here we are, discussing a Bitcoin ETF, which involves plenty of corporate middlemen and has no benefit to the Bitcoin community besides increasing Bitcoin's speculative value.

You reckon it's a charity to boost bitcoin holders' wealth? The purpose of this ETF is to extract profit, the rest is unintended.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#425

Post by johnwheeler »

david_shi wrote: post #354

Bitcoin exists to solve the principal-agent problem that comes with delegating control of the money supply to singular institutions. If you look at the history of empires, from the Romans to the Han, it is littered with instances of societal decline as a direct result of inflation and overspending. This unilateral currency debasement is much harder if the collective (and global) definition of money is determined by d…

Uhhh but what about the Keynesian tools we need to get us out of jams that a fixed money supply doesn’t afford us? They apparently worked great the last two crises.

I know, I know… it’s all part of one of Dalio’s big cycles, and I just haven’t seen it play out yet, I’m naive and all that. Bitcoin save us.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#426

Post by kemotep »

marricks wrote: post #380
david_shi wrote: post #354

Bitcoin exists to solve the principal-agent problem that comes with delegating control of the money supply to singular institutions. If you look at the history of empires, from the Romans to the Han, it is littered with instances of societal decline as a direct result of inflation and overspending. This unilateral currency debasement is much harder if the collective (and global) definition of money is determined by d…

> societal decline as a direct result of inflation and overspending Really? Direct? Pretty sure the Roman’s had many other things happening upstream of overspending. Many things were going wrong.

We have as many reasons to believe that the legacy of the Roman Empire, through the Catholic Church, still exists today and is a billion people strong as we do why it fell at any one particular day for any one particular reason.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#427

Post by fsckboy »

lucw wrote: post #242
piuantiderp wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a valid concern, the actual value of BTC and ETF might diverge wildly. Never a better time to actually own some

If they diverge, an arbitrage opportunity will appear which market participants will jump on.

if they diverge because an economic shitstorm has started and everybody is buying food for survival with bitcoin, but the rump government still wants its cut of your new mad gainz, bitcoin in the ETF and bitcoin out of the ETF might maintain independent values, FEC vs RMB

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#429

Post by TapWaterBandit »

ac29 wrote: post #394
TapWaterBandit wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol this comment is funny because you clearly don't understand how Bitcoin works but are convinced it will be a problem. Owning the most bitcoin (or even a majority of the bitcoin) doesn't mean you control the network......

The bitcoin network is ultimately controlled by the economic weight of its largest holders. If the big funds control enough bitcoin, they will have the power to pick which fork holds value. Miners and node operators can operate on whichever fork they want, but that doesnt mean Coinbase or Fidelity or whoever is going to recognize that fork.

> Miners and node operators can operate on whichever fork they want, but that doesnt mean Coinbase or Fidelity or whoever is going to recognize that fork.

Mate that isn't how it work. If Coinbase or Fidelity don't recognise the real blockchain then they no longer have real bitcoin, they have a forked coin (because they are not on the true bitcoin chain). The Bitcoin chain is determined by consensus of the majority of miners/nodes (not bitcoin holders!) and if they break from that they now have a substantially devalued asset (look up the price of BCH and BTG these days).

You seem to be under a misapprehension that owning the most bitcoin gives an institution or individual power over the network. It does not.

Bitcoin, by definition, cannot exist on two separate chains. If an institution attempted what you are saying all they will have done is reverse alchemy: turned gold (bitcoin) into lead (an unrecognised chain with no mining occurring, no recognition by nodes etc).

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