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Generation Junk

walterkirn.substack.com

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Re: Generation Junk

#421

Post by dehrmann »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #392
dehrmann wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there isn't enough overall volume to ever get the kinks worked out.

That's only if they don't QC every single part, for every single car, coming from new suppliers. Which RR would do to avoid the obvious problem, only after a supplier has been verified to be sending only the highest quality product, would they ease off. The simplest thing is that the supplier charges double or triple the unit price such that they can accept half the parts failing inspection and getting sent back.

It's more than just QC. When you make 3M cars per year, you get a lot of data points about what fails, and you you feed that back into new designs. You also nail manufacturing tolerances. When you make 4,000 (and a lot of those won't see the same mileage as a Honda), there aren't as many opportunities to find these issues.

Or another way: you an QC a bolt to death, but that doesn't tell you if it's undersized for the design.

Re: Generation Junk

#422

Post by MichaelZuo »

dehrmann wrote: post #421
MichaelZuo wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only if they don't QC every single part, for every single car, coming from new suppliers. Which RR would do to avoid the obvious problem, only after a supplier has been verified to be sending only the highest quality product, would they ease off. The simplest thing is that the supplier charges double or triple the unit price such that they can accept half the parts failing inspection and getting sent back.

It's more than just QC. When you make 3M cars per year, you get a lot of data points about what fails, and you you feed that back into new designs. You also nail manufacturing tolerances. When you make 4,000 (and a lot of those won't see the same mileage as a Honda), there aren't as many opportunities to find these issues. Or another way: you an QC a bolt to death, but that doesn't tell you if it's undersized for the…

Yes it does when there are several stages of prototypes and engineering builds before the actual production vehicle is shipped to customers... and the hundreds of other mechanisms and systems that major automakers use nowadays. I mentioned QC because it's the first screening for arriving parts, not the only thing that occurs.

Do you not know how car manufacturing works?

Anyways you don't have to take the quality of RR parts on my word if you still think it's impossible, just go a showroom and inspect it yourself.

Re: Generation Junk

#423

Post by ForestCritter »

If you shop by researching brand rather than price, you will find there are still good companies out there. Lots of cheap stuff is junk, some expensive stuff is junk. Even within brands there are differences. My fancy four wide slot cuisinart toaster has survived 20 years, lots of use many moves and getting slightly squished in an overstuffed trunk and is still going strong. Cuisinart coffee makers, however, lose their marbles at any power flickering, never mind outages. We can bemoan the onslaught of junk that we keep buying and therefore helping it grow, or just maybe we could put our money into companies that still make good stuff through some consumer research instead of believing the advertised 'best deal'.

Re: Generation Junk

#424

Post by Wistar »

piva00 wrote: post #300
idontwantthis wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this article would be a lot more interesting if there were a conspiracy to buy up all of the indestructible appliances made more than x decades ago. If they really were that much better then more of them would be around today.

I live in Sweden and can find quite a lot of old school kitchen appliances in flea markets/thrift stores. I bought my Technivorm Moccamaster coffeemaker in one, a Bamix immersion blender, a Bosch stand mixer, all of them from around the 80s and still working 100% fine.

My 3 year old Moccamaster’s auto-off feature gave up a couple months ago. It uses a special mechanical switch—an illuminated rocker switch that physically flips and turns the carafe warming plate off after 100 minutes—that I know I could easily replace if I had the part but Technivorm insists I send the unit to them which I probably never will do because the packing and shipping is a pain and costly and because I need my coffee.

And, boy, does it make good coffee.

Re: Generation Junk

#425

Post by cs702 »

truculent wrote: post #412
cs702 wrote: post #387

Many of these junky mass-market products are currently stuck in a Nash Equilibrium [a]: Each manufacturer is unable improve the product's quality without increasing its retail price, but increasing the price would make the product more expensive than competing products made by other manufacturers, who are in the same situation. No manufacturer can improve quality without raising prices and losing market share. Their…

What’s the implication for moving the equilibrium point? State action? Collective action?

Depends on the market and the product. The best way, in my view, is through product innovation by ambitious entrepreneurs who come up with a better solution. Instead of trying to making the equivalent of a faster horse carriage at cheaper cost, they figure out how to make the equivalent of an automobile, rendering horse carriages obsolete.

Re: Generation Junk

#426

Post by cs702 »

efields wrote: post #400
cs702 wrote: post #387

Many of these junky mass-market products are currently stuck in a Nash Equilibrium [a]: Each manufacturer is unable improve the product's quality without increasing its retail price, but increasing the price would make the product more expensive than competing products made by other manufacturers, who are in the same situation. No manufacturer can improve quality without raising prices and losing market share. Their…

Thanks for this. I didn’t know there was a name for it. We’ve probably accelerated the effects that lead to the equilibrium in many product categories. It takes a big mover like an Apple to take the risk to move the needle now, but so many consumer products lack an Apple in that space.

> It takes a big mover like an Apple...

or an ambitious entrepreneur with sufficient financial backing willing to take big risks.

Re: Generation Junk

#427

Post by NoOn3 »

cracrecry wrote: post #366

Today you can buy a Miele household appliance. A liebherr fridge. A Dyson vacuum cleaner(I bought mine like 20 years ago and works like the first day). People can buy a stainless steel drum washing machine, or you can buy it in injection molded plastic. Most people buy the plastic one, because the other is much more expensive. Fair enough, the only problem is that you see the person who bought one with the plastic dr…

But unfortunately, you can never be sure that if a thing is expensive, it is reliable. It's a little difficult to find reliable things in today's market, but it's posible.

Re: Generation Junk

#428

Post by bigbluesax »

alexey-salmin wrote: post #264
CobaltFire wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are brands built to super high standards, but no-one wants to pay for them or deal with their compromises. We have been buying Miele appliances, and have nothing but excellent experiences. They aren't cheap, but the general opinion I've seen online is that they are one of the few brands that build quality modern appliances. My experiences would tend to back that up. Specific to the Miele washer and dryer, we ha…

> There are brands built to super high standards, but no-one wants to pay for them or deal with their compromises I'm willing to pay. The money is not the only problem though. 1) These brands are hard to find. I've never heard of Miele until I rented an apartment that had one. The owner built the place for himself but then had to put it for rent. 2) Most of the brands that pretend to be high-quality are the same crap…

It's exhausting trying to find these brands. You have to do a ton of research, most of which is sifting through ads and the worst google results you've ever seen. If your already in the space you might be so lucky to already know a good reviewer. You also have to update your knowledge constantly, as lots of brands start to decline in quality once they get popular or change ownership.

Re: Generation Junk

#429

Post by reeddavid »

kube-system wrote: post #147
fullstop wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A toaster in 1951 was $21, which is about $250 today. I would argue that a $250 toaster today is still not a "buy it for life" item, but it would certainly have a lot of bells and whistles and almost no user-serviceable parts.

> I would argue that a $250 toaster today is still not a "buy it for life" item, but it would certainly have a lot of bells and whistles and almost no user-serviceable parts. Not if you buy one that is $250 because it has bells and whistles . You can buy a $250 dollar toaster that is just a toaster and it will be of good quality. https://www.webstaurantstore.com/waring-wct708-4-slice-comme...

The reviews suggest this $250 toaster isn't any better:

"was hoping it lasted longer & would be better quality but was disappointed" "All the coils do no not glow and It toasts unevenly" "one side stops working after 6 months or so. I’ve gone through three of these" "Bought two of these toasters both stopped working" "Have to replace this toaster about once a year, one side will always stop working" "Lasted me about a month or so and it no longer works". "Died so quickly!"

I think this is a perfect example of the problem. There is a market for $250 toasters, but even for that price you can't buy a reliable toaster.

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