The pro-Israel information war • Hacker News Board

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#421

Post by mastazi » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:23 PM UTC

instaeloq wrote: post #307

mastazi wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that parent is suggesting that platforms are actively prioritising one over the other. I think they are saying that the composition of users of these apps skews one way rather than the other due to pre existing stances, and the fact that the apps are not available in some markets. As a result, certain views are prioritised as a byproduct of the fact that all modern social media apps have an algorithm th…

I think your interpretation is wrong. OP stated: "If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views". They're explicitly stating that they believe pro-palestinian views are prioritized.

I don't see how that quote from OP is incompatible with my point, please explain

> They're explicitly stating that they believe pro-palestinian views are prioritized.

I'm also saying that they are prioritised, here is a sentence from my previous comment:

> As a result, certain views are prioritised

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#422

Post by aprilthird2021 » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:23 PM UTC

odiroot wrote: post #116

That's a really... weird article to read. It's like reading a fantasy book about another universe. Or a desperate attempt at "inception". Reddit, at least, seems to be (rightfully or not) dominated by a strongly anti-Israel narrative. Even the "great" BBC is not willing to call a spade a spade.

[flagged]

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#423

Post by istultus » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:23 PM UTC

What an absolute mind-fuck.

I think the greatest thing the Moscow-Teheran-Beijing "bot army diplomacy doctrine" is showing us is that you can radicalize both the US right AND the US Left at the same time by speaking to each side's idiocies at full throat.

We are nearing Elders of Zion territory here where the ratio of 2 Billion Muslims to 15 Million Jews, and thus the constant stream of anti-Israeli propaganda, now contains propaganda suggesting that we are deceived and in fact there is more pro-Israeli discoursem when in reality it is being drowned out.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#424

Post by bjourne » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:23 PM UTC

zone411 wrote: post #360

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This also presumes that any Muslim will be pro-Palestine and any Jewish person would be pro-Israel, a pretty strong statement given that entire communities within Israel are staunchly opposed to their ongoing actions against Hamas, which increasingly seem to be actually against Palestinian people, whom themselves also have a wide and diverse set of opinions about Hamas. The war is shockingly unpopular on both sides o…

> have a wide and diverse set of opinions about Hamas 75% of Palestinians "support the military operation carried out by the Palestinian resistance led by Hamas on October 7th." 76% have positive views of Hamas (other armed terrorist groups have even larger support). https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20...

I really wish people would stop citing pollsters with no pedigree. What is the Arab World for Research & Development? Who is funding them? Who is conducting their polls? Who staffs them? Are their results reliable?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#425

Post by Affric » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:23 PM UTC

instaeloq wrote: post #307

mastazi wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that parent is suggesting that platforms are actively prioritising one over the other. I think they are saying that the composition of users of these apps skews one way rather than the other due to pre existing stances, and the fact that the apps are not available in some markets. As a result, certain views are prioritised as a byproduct of the fact that all modern social media apps have an algorithm th…

I think your interpretation is wrong. OP stated: "If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views". They're explicitly stating that they believe pro-palestinian views are prioritized.

> “If anything”

This is an important clause here. It means that they do not believe that pro-Israel views are prioritised but __if__ any it is the case that there are prioritised views are pro-Palestinian views.

Now, you could argue that this is a bad faith rhetorical device but it is not “explicitly stating that they believe pro-Palestinian views are prioritised”.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#426

Post by senderista » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:24 PM UTC

ComputerGuru wrote: post #414

senderista wrote: post #378

I'm not trying to deflect, but I do find it interesting that just 2 months ago, >100K Armenians were permanently displaced from their homes in Nagorno-Karabakh where they've lived for literally millenia, and I saw essentially no coverage of this in Western media (in contrast, it was all over Russian media, possibly because Armenia is a historical ally of Russia and a lot of Russians are frustrated that Russia and the…

Totally unrelated, did you know it was Israel that armed the Azeri army for their ethnic cleansing campaign? https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/rjhofzoet

I certainly did. They won't even sell Harop or Spike to Ukraine.

Did you know about the Israeli killer drone sales demo for the Azeris that practiced on live Armenian soldiers?

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2017-08-15/ty-article/is...

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#427

Post by dralley » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:24 PM UTC

EvgeniyZh wrote: post #345

wolverine876 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> chants like "from the river to the sea" (meaning destroying Jewish country) What is the truth of that? I've seen Israeli advocates make that claim and many repeat it. I've also seen an explainer in legitimate source (maybe the NY Times?) say that it means both Palestinians and Jews should be free. Does anyone have some actual, authoritative information? Something from before October 7th might be good. > saying Isra…

For example, 2017 Hamas charter [1], page 6: The establishment of “Israel” is entirely illegal and contravenes the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and goes against their will and the will of the Ummah ... There shall be no recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist entity. ... Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without com…

>Again, people may use it trying to say something else, but slogans do not exist in a vacuum. Saying "from the river to the sea" means that all people should be free is akin to saying "arbeit macht frei" is a call for the financial independence of working people.

Their "2017 charter" rather dramatically toned down the language. The original version makes no attempt to be politically correct.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#428

Post by samatman » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:24 PM UTC

49531 wrote: post #252

matrix87 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But saying all criticism of Israel is antisemitic deflects legitimate criticism Who is saying this? All I've heard are people on one side insisting that people are saying this, sounds like a straw man

The US House of Representatives passed a measure on Tuesday which "clearly and firmly states that anti-Zionism is antisemitism"[1]; so at least 311 congress members are saying it. 1. https://www.congress.gov/118/bills/hres894/BILLS-118hres894i...

anti-Zionism is the proposition that Israel must be destroyed. Zionism is the movement to ensure that the Jewish homeland in the form of the state of Israel be created and sustained, anti-Zionism is its antithesis.

This is not the same as being critical of that state, being anti-Israel isn't antisemitic (except when it is, obviously), but nor is it anti-Zionism. Saying Netanyahu should be dragged before the Hague, that the international community should demand an immediate ceasefire or force a two-state solution, that Israel must uphold the right of return: none of these are anti-Zionism, nor antisemitic.

If your position is not that Israel must be destroyed, good, don't call yourself anti-Zionist though. If it is, then yes, that's antisemitic, or the word is meaningless.

Similarly, find another slogan besides "From the river to the sea", because that is, in fact, a call to ethnically cleanse all Jews from Israel. It has meant that since the establishment of Israel, and you don't get to wander in and say it means something different at this point. If you don't mean that, don't say it. Find literally any other way to express yourself.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#429

Post by Scubabear68 » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:24 PM UTC

kromem wrote: post #372

Scubabear68 wrote: post #91

I have no skin in this game. What I have seen is a confusion (perhaps intentional) between anti-semitism, and protesting Israel’s behavior since the Hamas attack in October. Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.

While that is definitely true and an important distinction, I will say that unfortunately all too often as discussions on the topic deepen there's a troubling correlation between the most vocal voices engaged in criticizing Israel and legit antisemitism views creeping in. Which isn't a one sided phenomenon. The reverse is true as well, where often the most vocal voices rationalizing Israel's actions and behavior arou…

I get your point, but at the same time dragging anti-semetism into the argument weakens the voices of those who really are not anti-Semitic at all, but genuinely question the Israeli government response to the Hamas attacks.

Which is, I suspect, the point - to weaken those viewpoints.

And to address others in this thread around US actions around the world, I am critical of the U.S. war on Afghanistan and the second Iraq war as well as the Israeli attacks on Gaza.

One can be critical of a government without despising it.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#430

Post by kingkawn » Fri, Dec 08, 2023, 10:24 PM UTC

grumple wrote: post #340

kingkawn wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

1200+ Israelis, mostly civilians, were brutally murdered on 10/7. There have already been real-life anti-semitic attacks on people and property. There have been synagogues and cemeteries burned, people murdered, shot, and stabbed, businesses trashed. [0][1][2][3][4] You can find hundreds more sources of recent, very real, physical violence against Jews and Jewish places worldwide. Jews have been subject to thousands…

What is happening now worldwide in terms of anti-semitism is absolutely irrelevant in comparison to the mass murder in Gaza. I come from people who were the recipients of anti-Semitic violence in Europe for centuries. What Israel is doing has only and will only make it worse.