Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers

electrek.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

421–430 of 504 posts

Re: Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers

#421

Post by hef19898 »

RamblingCTO wrote: post #417
jakewins wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have examples of what kind of DIY work is hard? I haven’t done a ton of work on newer cars, but at least adding wiring for a hitch on my Kona EV was just as easy as any wiring I’ve done on my old truck. Is a job like adding amps and better speakers trickier?

I have a defender and added a bunch of stuff to it: cruise control, motor pre-heater, rear camera, working lights in the rear. I'll also add a diesel heater and more electrics at some point. On 12V it's easy, can't imagine doing work like that with 48V. Not sure how this works, and if you maybe just can use 12V anyway. But wanted to make the point of camper vans and overlanders and offroaders.

An old or a new one?

Re: Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers

#422

Post by RamblingCTO »

hef19898 wrote: post #421
RamblingCTO wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a defender and added a bunch of stuff to it: cruise control, motor pre-heater, rear camera, working lights in the rear. I'll also add a diesel heater and more electrics at some point. On 12V it's easy, can't imagine doing work like that with 48V. Not sure how this works, and if you maybe just can use 12V anyway. But wanted to make the point of camper vans and overlanders and offroaders.

An old or a new one?

Ah right, should've specified that. Of course an old one ;) A Td5. I call the other one "New Defender"

Re: Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers

#423

Post by bryanlarsen »

bluGill wrote: post #59
bryanlarsen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the residential snow clearing outfits around me use plows and blowers on Kubota tractors. Probably part of the reason is so that can use PTO hydraulics...

There are pros and cons. Snow plows beat on a the vehicle - which is why plows are the last thing a truck does before you quit using it. Highway departments will use a dump truck mounted plow because the frame of the dump truck can take the beating (that they can put salt on the dump truck is a very useful side effect). Tractors are designed to pull plows through dirt which also beats on them, and so tractors can sta…

Yup, the tractors are for driveway work. For road work uses the dump truck mounted plows you describe.

Re: Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers

#424

Post by kwhitefoot »

mmaunder wrote: post #246

Many comments here seem to be confusing the accessories circuit voltage with the electrical vehicle motor and drive system. The vehicle motors have a combined power output of 450KW which requires a high voltage 800V system or the wiring would be so heavy it would not be feasible. This spec appears to be the accessories circuit with Tesla pushing for a new 48V standard. That’s super smart because it immediately means…

Do Tesla have 800 V batteries yet? I thought they were still using 400 V for all the cars.

Re: Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers

#425

Post by hef19898 »

panick21_ wrote: post #405
Closi wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well according to Tesla it wasn't working just fine for everyone - they have been able to massively simplify their internal wiring. Classic example of legacy automakers happy to maintain the status-quo because it is easiest, while the new kid on the block is pointing out that things don't have to be the way they are just because they are that way.

Its the same with aluminum casting. The car makers used the technology once in a while in some specific parts, Tesla was like 'why not make half the car out of one casting'. Tesla worked closely with a supplier, did lots of its own research and development and continue to work with a supplier to make the technology better over time. This was considered stupid at first. This is now very widely copied. First automakers…

A quick search turned up this:

>> S&P Global Mobility forecasts 15% to 20% of traditional body-in-white (BIW) stampings in 2030 may be at risk from these gigacastings. Underbody components typically comprise about 50% of a vehicle's BIW shell, and this soft underbelly is the target of gigacasting's focus.

Source: https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/en/research-analysis/gigac...

Obviously not a technical journal, nor did I double check anything.

What the numbers say 15-20% might be replaced by gigastampings (sidenote: I ak surprised Elon didn't rename Twitter to Giga-X). Which, ok, is a thing. But nowhere near the revolution people seem to believe. First, it has to happen. Second, others have to consider it better, read overall cheaper, and continue doing it. Then we can properly judge. Until then, it might as well be in the category of Teslas fully automated factories that ended with Elon doing pyjama parties with his workers on the shopfloor and ad-hoc tents.

And Toyota, as per the linked article, is not copying it, they are "eyeing" it. And believe itbor not, manufacturers are eyeing new production tech all the time.

And Toyotas reputation in car manufacturing is well earned.

Re: Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers

#426

Post by hef19898 »

RamblingCTO wrote: post #422
hef19898 wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An old or a new one?

Ah right, should've specified that. Of course an old one ;) A Td5. I call the other one "New Defender"

And a TD5 is already modern-ish enough, but very nice regardless! Personally, I would be at a loss working in anything built after the early 80s, so for a Defender that would be the dual-carb V8s, and 200/300 TDis.

My 1982 Range Rover has all of three fuses, so electrically I'm fine! Except the mess previous owners did to the original wiring... No idea why it is so difficult to just make your own wiring for after market accesories instead of butchering the OEM one up beyond recognition. It works, so I don't touch it. I have no idea why it works so...

Re: Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers

#427

Post by crishoj »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #424
mmaunder wrote: post #246

Many comments here seem to be confusing the accessories circuit voltage with the electrical vehicle motor and drive system. The vehicle motors have a combined power output of 450KW which requires a high voltage 800V system or the wiring would be so heavy it would not be feasible. This spec appears to be the accessories circuit with Tesla pushing for a new 48V standard. That’s super smart because it immediately means…

Do Tesla have 800 V batteries yet? I thought they were still using 400 V for all the cars.

Cybertruck is the first Tesla vehicle with 800v architecture. The S3XY lineup uses 400v.

Re: Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers

#428

Post by crishoj »

ReactiveJelly wrote: post #215
Moto7451 wrote: post #189

Audi also has a 48v architecture in use for mild hybrids like my SQ5. This is an older article but explains it well https://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/06/20170602-audi.html My 2021 is fully 48v except for an inverter for necessary 12v circuits (like cigarette outlets and the jumper pins) and a small motorcycle battery that is used for minimal 12v functionality. The mild hybrid battery is under the rear seats and s…

Not sure how relevant this is, but curious readers might be interested: In those 400-800 volt systems, the low-voltage system is used to wake up the battery's computer and close a normally-open contactor inside the battery that connects the high-voltage system. So indeed they might not ground HV stuff to the chassis, and the hundreds-of-volts sources are disconnected if the car is turned off and unplugged.

Exactly. Apart from waking up the vehicle and closing the high voltage connectors, a whole myriad of things run off the low-voltage system, including lights, climate, infotainment and most (if not all) actuators.

Re: Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers

#429

Post by sokoloff »

carstenhag wrote: post #413
sokoloff wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP was talking about the low voltage system (the 12-volt system in most cars) and choosing a voltage for it, not anything about the traction battery.

No, they were comparing the difference in precautions between 12/48v accessory battery and the 400/800V traction battery.

You are correct; thanks; I missed the precise context of the snipped text.

Re: Tesla shares 48V architecture with other automakers

#430

Post by kzrdude »

LoganDark wrote: post #341
kalleboo wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watts = Amps * Volts (or, more scientifically, P = I * V) If something draws 48 Watts of power, you can either supply it with 4 Amps @ 12 Volt, or 1 Amp @ 48 Volt. It's the amps that determine how thick the wiring needs to be, so by lowering the amperage, you lower the amount of wiring needed. I believe the only reason cars are 12 V is because that's a practical voltage to build lead-acid batteries at (which is actua…

This makes such little sense to me. I'm probably just stupid, but if the same amount of power is flowing through the wire, don't you need the same size of wire? A higher voltage system will push more energy through the same component, so you need thicker wires. If you up the resistance of the component to consume the same amount of energy as before, you arrive at the same size of wire you were using before, don't you…

Just as further confirmation, remember that long distance power delivery uses high voltage, often measured in kilovolts. Because of reduced losses that way.
Post reply on HN