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What I learned getting acquired by Google

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Re: What I learned getting acquired by Google

#421

Post by scarface_74 »

carabiner wrote: post #151
gnfargbl wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how it works with contractors in most large organisations. The other side of the coin is that they're usually rewarded better than employees are, on the basis that they can be fired at any time with no notice. In practice that rarely happens, as higher-pay => better-retention => becomes-most-knowledgeable-person-over-time.

Most large orgs don't have the perks of Goog, Meta. Amazon and Cisco don't have free food, massages, etc. so it doesn't matter contractor vs. fulltime.

It very much matters - paid time off, benefits, employer paid FICA taxes (if you are 1099). All that is just money and if you are an SME you can negotiate for a high enough hourly rate to make up the difference.

But if you are just doing staff augmentation, probably not.

Re: What I learned getting acquired by Google

#422

Post by lmm »

esafak wrote: post #413
lmm wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic it's always fine for companies to get around labour protections. Yes, it would be better if they hired no-one. When your job conditions are beneath human dignity, you don't get to hire people for that job, even if that means your stock price doesn't grow quite as much and GDP is lower this year.

I don't think workers generally agree with you. Certainly in the tech world, it is hard to describe contract work as "beneath human dignity". For blue collar work, I would understand your point.

> Certainly in the tech world, it is hard to describe contract work as "beneath human dignity".

Realistically in the US the distinction is mainly about whether you have medical coverage. Plenty of people work with no or bad medical coverage because they are some combination of optimistic/greedy/desperate; to assess how humane that is you'd have to look at how they feel about it after getting diagnosed with something that they struggle to get decent treatment for because they weren't an employee.

Re: What I learned getting acquired by Google

#423

Post by sgerenser »

foota wrote: post #219
nineplay wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went from full time employee to contractor at the same company once and it was honestly a huge relief. No awkward team lunches No useless tchotchkes No boring all hands No forced participation events like 'hackathons'. I just worked. It was great

It was Microsoft, wasn't it? :)

Microsoft never had forced participation in hackathons. It was generally encouraged but at most maybe 25% of FT engineers participated.

Re: What I learned getting acquired by Google

#424

Post by [deleted] »

slater- wrote: post #96
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #79

The "red badge" thing was very real. It was really weird having TVCs on your team. You'd all work hard together to launch a thing, and then everybody except the red badge would get a celebratory team tchotchke or a team lunch or something. If you asked about it, the manager would say "we can't give Jim things directly because that might be like compensation and they'd be like an employee." There'd be all-hands meetin…

thank you for mentioning this. i was a red badge. it was fucking demeaning. i have a lot of stories, but my favorite was when everyone on my floor got an earthquake safety kit except me. literally google didn't care if i lived or died. the expectation was that if i sucked up enough ("demonstrated my value") they MIGHT make me a real boy, like some bizarre Velveteen Rabbit fetish game. i loved watching how Google woul…

[deleted]

Re: What I learned getting acquired by Google

#425

Post by [deleted] »

slater- wrote: post #96
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #79

The "red badge" thing was very real. It was really weird having TVCs on your team. You'd all work hard together to launch a thing, and then everybody except the red badge would get a celebratory team tchotchke or a team lunch or something. If you asked about it, the manager would say "we can't give Jim things directly because that might be like compensation and they'd be like an employee." There'd be all-hands meetin…

thank you for mentioning this. i was a red badge. it was fucking demeaning. i have a lot of stories, but my favorite was when everyone on my floor got an earthquake safety kit except me. literally google didn't care if i lived or died. the expectation was that if i sucked up enough ("demonstrated my value") they MIGHT make me a real boy, like some bizarre Velveteen Rabbit fetish game. i loved watching how Google woul…

[deleted]

Re: What I learned getting acquired by Google

#426

Post by marricks »

rescbr wrote: post #129
jedberg wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny because later in the article he mentions the difference between Google and Amazon, and this is a huge one. At Amazon you can't even open the building next door without approval.

When I went to other sites I just had to file a ticket and that was it. If something were to be approved, it was automatic, unless it was a restricted office/building. Maybe it depends on the job role. Not too unusual, other companies I've worked were very similar.

I think there's a pretty big difference between filing a ticket to open the building next door and having free workspaces around the world you don't have to do paperwork to use.

Re: What I learned getting acquired by Google

#427

Post by throwaway2037 »

julienb_sea wrote: post #355
ponector wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is great for living, for raising kids. For life. Taxes in Europe are huge, but comparable with taxes in California. Just sum all federal, state, local taxes on the salary, property taxes, sales taxes, health insurance fee, college tuition fee. Don't forget to add 25% tips to that. Count also small vacation, maternity leave and sick leave. And then compare for example with France. And not to mention you wouldn't fi…

I'm sorry, I don't think you have sufficient perspective on what middle class life is like in France to make this comment with any justification. French taxation is incredibly complex and heavy on the middle class. It is financially unfeasible for most middle class households to pass down their homes to their children due to the estate tax kicking on assets over 100,000 eur. There are many unhoused people spread acro…

    It is financially unfeasible for most middle class households to pass down their homes to their children due to the estate tax kicking on assets over 100,000 eur.
That seems OK to me. Why should children who are lucky to be born into a stable middle class family have a large financial advantage over other children? To be clear, passing down an entire home tax free in a highly developed nation is a huge financial advantage. Literally: 1,000+ EURs per month, for life would be saved. Why do so many people on HN think this should be normal to allow? In my eyes, this is the path to Old World aristocracy. The purpose of inheritance taxes is to reduce this advantage.

I can guess what the reply/replies will be: "Oh, but housing is more expensive now. There is no choice but to use inheritance to give my children a head start." It would be better to ask why housing has gotten so out of control, not using inheritance to side step the issue.

Re: What I learned getting acquired by Google

#428

Post by phs318u »

slater- wrote: post #96
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #79

The "red badge" thing was very real. It was really weird having TVCs on your team. You'd all work hard together to launch a thing, and then everybody except the red badge would get a celebratory team tchotchke or a team lunch or something. If you asked about it, the manager would say "we can't give Jim things directly because that might be like compensation and they'd be like an employee." There'd be all-hands meetin…

thank you for mentioning this. i was a red badge. it was fucking demeaning. i have a lot of stories, but my favorite was when everyone on my floor got an earthquake safety kit except me. literally google didn't care if i lived or died. the expectation was that if i sucked up enough ("demonstrated my value") they MIGHT make me a real boy, like some bizarre Velveteen Rabbit fetish game. i loved watching how Google woul…

I worked for one of the largest banks in Australia as a contractor. When I first joined, "we don't discriminate based on the employment type". The perm staff were wonderful in that regard. Then a new COO joined. He was a fucking sociopath. First we started getting locked out of various internal sites, needing to "reapply" for security reasons. Then they introduced the email badging that appended a big "(EXTERNAL!)" to your name in the address book. Then, if anyone attached anything to an email that included even one contractor as an addressee, they'd see a big WARNING! reminding them that they were potentially leaking the keys to the kingdom to us untrustworthy SOBs. Then in November a big rumour started going around that contractors were going to be "surprised" with a forced 6-week holiday (normal shutdown for contractors was 2 weeks over the break). I politely called out the COO directly on the internal Yammer, asking him to please put an end to the rumour mill and just confirm or deny whether it was true. I said the company would be within its rights to make that call but reminded him that "contractors are people too" and given the time of year, might want to know if their services weren't needed in January. I got a bunch of support from employees (and the managers I worked for) - perm and contractor alike. Many perms were embarassed and apologetic for this outcasting of contractors (way to increase morale Mr.COO). Anyway, within 24 hours, I was pulled out of a meeting and escorted out of the building. The entire Yammer forum was nuked from orbit (I still have a couple of screenshots) and I ended up in their non-existent "black book". I know this latter point because in the intervening years I would occasionally get pinged by recruiters for roles at that bank. I'd laugh and told them I was probably still in the black book and to contact so-and-so to confirm whether I'd be welcomed back. They were always surprised when they did so and were bluntly told that I was not welcome.

Since then I've been a perm at a couple of places were I had hiring responsibility and teams that included contractors and I ALWAYS made a point of treating them EXACTLY the same. I also never encountered another organisation that was as fucked in their treatment of contractors.

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