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Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

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Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#421

Post by saltminer »

mattmcknight wrote: post #329
gruez wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the case why don't we see school boards have expense policies to shut them up?

They do in many cases, it doesn't help because it's such an easy PR story. They just ask for more. The objective can never be "stop this group from wanting more money" because human desire is infinite.

So when one of my high school teachers had a projector bulb die but they couldn't afford any more bulbs that year, she should've just bought one and submitted it to the county for reimbursement? Or when I repaired their laptop carts with duct tape and prayers, they should've just expensed new ones?

That's incredible, I can't believe they were all were so stupid! /s

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#422

Post by automatoney »

uuddlrlrbaba wrote: post #391
tomcam wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Super informative. I must reveal my bias toward a free market here, but I also remember keenly what it was like to be a powerless employee. Germany appears to have by far the strongest economy in the EU but with higher unemployment than the USA. I’d love to hear your thoughts on the balance there vs the USA? I can imagine compelling arguments for each approach.

I'm not sure if this is factored into your unemployment numbers, but in the USA its very common for all adults to need to work in order to make ends meet. Whereas in a stronger economy with employment laws protecting employees it'd be much more possible for a family to live comfortably off a single income, making for a lot more "unemployed" adults.

Unemployment specifically refers to people who are looking for work - people who aren't seeking work don't count as unemployed in statistics.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#423

Post by skeeter2020 »

uuddlrlrbaba wrote: post #391
tomcam wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Super informative. I must reveal my bias toward a free market here, but I also remember keenly what it was like to be a powerless employee. Germany appears to have by far the strongest economy in the EU but with higher unemployment than the USA. I’d love to hear your thoughts on the balance there vs the USA? I can imagine compelling arguments for each approach.

I'm not sure if this is factored into your unemployment numbers, but in the USA its very common for all adults to need to work in order to make ends meet. Whereas in a stronger economy with employment laws protecting employees it'd be much more possible for a family to live comfortably off a single income, making for a lot more "unemployed" adults.

>> live comfortably off a single income, making for a lot more "unemployed" adults.

Unemployment stats explicitly only count those looking for work, so this actually misrepresents the other way; it doesn't include those people who have given up but given a choice would be working.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#424

Post by civilitty »

thinkerswell wrote: post #415
lowbloodsugar wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this "free market" you describe? Am I free to occupy any building I like, or does your "free" market include a concept of a "property" and entire government bureaucracies and men with guns to enforce such concepts? Does your "free market" make a distinction between "I expect this property to still be mine tomorrow" and "I expect this job to still be mine tomorrow"? Does you "free market" allow for individuals…

Go watch a few Milton Friedman videos and you’ll have answers to those questions, though you may not like the answers.

A lobotomy works just as well.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#425

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

gruez wrote: post #333
josefx wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The terms of the exchange is your time for money. So the contract only covers time? Not actual work, but only time? Do I get to spend the time how I want as long as there is a paper trail that it was your time I just wasted? > The company isn't a charity. Yet both are legal and social constructs and not something you can make up on the fly to fit your personal preferences. > it makes little sense for employers to p…

>So the contract only covers time? Not actual work, but only time? Do I get to spend the time how I want as long as there is a paper trail that it was your time I just wasted? I'm not sure whether this is supposed to be gotcha at my wording, but it's pretty obvious that if you're paying for someone's time, there's an expectation that they're doing what you want them to do. Otherwise it's like ordering an airbnb but y…

> I'm not sure whether this is supposed to be gotcha at my wording, but it's pretty obvious that if you're paying for someone's time, there's an expectation that they're doing what you want them to do.

It was indeed a good question, getting you closer to the truth: No, the employee isn't getting paid for time. No, the employee isn't getting paid for results. The employee is getting paid for fulfilling their terms of an employment contract which may include terms regarding time, results, and benefits that treat the employee as a human being, rather than a cog.

So the main reason to give such benefits to an employee of yours would be because the contract you signed says you have to.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#426

Post by philipov »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #423
uuddlrlrbaba wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if this is factored into your unemployment numbers, but in the USA its very common for all adults to need to work in order to make ends meet. Whereas in a stronger economy with employment laws protecting employees it'd be much more possible for a family to live comfortably off a single income, making for a lot more "unemployed" adults.

>> live comfortably off a single income, making for a lot more "unemployed" adults. Unemployment stats explicitly only count those looking for work, so this actually misrepresents the other way; it doesn't include those people who have given up but given a choice would be working.

I don't think it's that clear cut. Another interpretation is that someone could afford to be "looking for work" for longer while supported by their partner's income. People would be able to afford to shop around for a better job, which would leave more people in the "looking for work" pool for when a good opportunity comes around. They would be less desperate to accept the first offer they get.

We shouldn't rush to judgement of what this policy represents or misrepresents based on just-so stories informed by a different society.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#427

Post by skeeter2020 »

gosub100 wrote: post #394
gizmo wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firing everybody and only re-hiring the meek employees is a classic union-busting tactic and plainly unlawful.

Maybe lesson for next time: have some "sleeper cells" in the company that are not part of the union who can slow down development, create bugs, and waste time, accidentally check in AWS creds, etc.

Aside from sounding like an idea my 14-yr-old son might suggest, if you actually want to promote organization as a superior arrangement for software development and tech companies this would make them look worse. Most of us are too busy working to play Tom Clancy.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#428

Post by JumpCrisscross »

runarberg wrote: post #414
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the unionization wave which is taking over the USA Union membership fell to an all-time low in 2022 [1]. Given Yellow's bankruptcy and the writer lay-offs, I'd expect that to have continued this year. [1] https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/union2.pdf

The wave of unionization refers to new unions being formed, more workplaces unionizing, and a general zeitgeist favoring union. It does not refer to total number of union members. Since the 1980s the trend has been that unions, unionized workplaces, and union memberships have all been on a steep decline (along with pay, worker rights, etc.). It is not surprising that union memberships will continue to decline given t…

> wave of unionization refers to new unions being formed, more workplaces unionizing, and a general zeitgeist favoring union

Public opinions is high and rising [1] and election petitions are up [2]. But job growth is accelerating towards non-union sectors with no sign of the unions following [3].

It's a plateau, not a wave. Unions are diminishing. But where they exist, they're expressing themselves more forcefully. The conditions for a wave exist. But a combination of labor law restrictions on unions and disinterest among nonunion workers fundamentally limits reversal.

[1] https://news.gallup.com/poll/398303/approval-labor-unions-hi...

[2] https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/news-story/election-petit...

[3] https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2023/02/28/1159663461/you...

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#429

Post by skeeter2020 »

seanhunter wrote: post #178
bananaquant wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an HR would say, those people are "a bad cultural fit", which legitimately raises the probability of them being laid off to 100%. Simple.

If that went to an arbitration, the HR would have some difficulty unless they could show a paper trail (eg emails in which people expressed concern about the cultural fit of these individuals) ahead of time. They could of course have paved the way by preparing such a trail ahead of time… But that would lead the way to the question of why this was a redundancy rather than dismissal for cause. Im not any sort of lawyer…

if these employees were focused on the organization efforts it seems reasonable that it would be pretty easy to show them as subpar performers against the corporate-oriented performance expectations, compared to others who were focused only on their work tasks. Stacked Ranking is reprehensible but not illegal.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#430

Post by s1artibartfast »

lowbloodsugar wrote: post #407
tomcam wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Super informative. I must reveal my bias toward a free market here, but I also remember keenly what it was like to be a powerless employee. Germany appears to have by far the strongest economy in the EU but with higher unemployment than the USA. I’d love to hear your thoughts on the balance there vs the USA? I can imagine compelling arguments for each approach.

What is this "free market" you describe? Am I free to occupy any building I like, or does your "free" market include a concept of a "property" and entire government bureaucracies and men with guns to enforce such concepts? Does your "free market" make a distinction between "I expect this property to still be mine tomorrow" and "I expect this job to still be mine tomorrow"? Does you "free market" allow for individuals…

>Free market" people love the corporation but hate the union. One is a legal fiction for rich people and one is a legal fiction for poor people.

Neither should have special legal privileges beyond those guaranteed to individuals.

This would go a long way to resolving the issues with both.

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