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Why scalpers can get tickets

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Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#421

Post by Retric »

lolinder wrote: post #416
Retric wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a common theory, but artists like Taylor Swift are willing to take the blame and avoid Ticketmaster. Ticketmaster has a monopoly position and is exercising monopoly power here.

Taylor Swift explicitly put the blame on Ticketmaster for the entire 2022 fiasco [0][1]. There was no taking responsibility, and she certainly wasn't avoiding Ticketmaster during that event. If she's avoiding a relationship with them in the future (I can't find any evidence of that), I'd wager it's because of their technical incompetence in handling her volume, not the sale price and the scalpers. [0] https://www.nyt…

Ticketmaster is still a monopoly.

What I meant is she’s avoiding the resale/scalping thing via Verified Fan to minimize the impact of scalpers. It’s still run through tickmaster.

https://help.ticketmaster.com/hc/en-us/articles/978700273934...

But Verified Fan isn’t universally applied. The individual artist make separate deals requiring it or not and they take the blame for the hassle of requiring it. I suspect but don’t know that Tickmaster also takes a larger cut for the “overhead” of Verified Fan, making this a classic monopolist lose lose situation.

PS: Rereading what I said I really wasn’t clear.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#422

Post by kelseyfrog »

xkjyeah wrote: post #227
kelseyfrog wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The downsides for ID-verified entry are shared with ID-required voting. Namely, if you are aware of intergroup variability in ID-having rates, is choosing it anyways a conscious discriminatory choice?

1/ attending a concert is not a civil right 2/ can't emphasize enough, but _get an ID_. While ID posession was used to discriminate against groups of people, the real problem here is "why doesn't everyone have an ID"?

Right, but I didn't say that attending a concert is a civil right. I also didn't say what the real problem was.

What I brought up was, knowing this, is still using ID discriminatory?

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#423

Post by cdchn »

amelius wrote: post #377
cdchn wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess if you don't use a streaming music service you're SOL seeing an artist you look. This is such a Hacker News suggestion.

If some idea is 99% ok, then it's really HN-like to burn it down because of the 1% that's possibly not ok. As if everything in our society is 100% ok.

This is also a very Hacker News-esq comment to think 1% of people are consuming music via means other than streaming services.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#424

Post by emodendroket »

charcircuit wrote: post #359
emodendroket wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next location or tour people are highly incentivized to snap up the tickets as soon as possible rather than waiting. This can't be the first you've heard of such a strategy.

If it sells out either way, then you will want to buy it before it sells out in both scenarios. It's just in the action scenario you can be sure you will get a ticket.

Buyers do not behave rationally. Without the induced sense of urgency some portion of buyers are going to think better of the purchase. So there is a risk it will not sell out either way.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#425

Post by EliRivers »

gist wrote: post #314
resolutebat wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Billy Joel: “I’d look down and see rich people sitting there, I call ’em ‘gold chainers.’ Sitting there puffing on a cigar, ‘entertain me, piano man.’ “They don’t stand up, make noise, [they just] sit there with their bouffant haired girlfriend lookin’ like a big shot. I kinda got sick of that, who the (heck) are these people, where are the real fans?”

Says Billy Joel most likely far richer than at least a typical front row seat buyer. Btw while I would consider myself a fan I'm not obsessed with Billy Joel and also he has certainly how do you say 'his issues' (ie addictions and so on). Also who is to say because they don't act ridiculous or obsessed they aren't 'real' fans. What is a real fan anyway? I hadn't heard there was a universal accepted definition.

Says Billy Joel most likely far richer than at least a typical front row seat buyer.

I suspect, though, he doesn't sit quietly in the front row of his own concerts, so that's not really relevant to the point he makes.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#426

Post by emodendroket »

krisoft wrote: post #387
emodendroket wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or proof that getting in would take much longer if they did that. Anyway, there are legitimate reasons someone might want to resell, like no longer being free on the event date, so I’m not sure even legitimate buyers would prefer such a strict system.

> there are legitimate reasons someone might want to resell, like no longer being free on the event date Which can also happen with airplane tickets. What makes it ok for an airplane ticket to be strictly tied to an ID, but not for a show?

The airline is allowed (in fact, required by law) to use security as a reason to pursue a policy that’s favorable to them. Do you like the experience of going to the airport and wish more things you did were similar?

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#427

Post by hnburnsy »

mattmaroon wrote: post #192
username332211 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the same reason why artists use Ticketmaster. Do you think they are stupid and just hand over ticket distribution to a company that routinely charges 30$ fees to a 40$ ticket? No, artists and producers aren't stupid, they get the most of the money from the Ticketmaster "fees". But when a fan sees a 70$ ticket, they'd may decide Bruce Springsteen (net worth 650$ million) isn't a man of the people. When they see a…

This is not how concerts work, and artists and producers don't get any money from Ticketmaster fees. In most cases, a promoter pays an artist a flat fee to perform. The promoter then markets the show and gets the ticket sales, and Ticketmaster gets Ticketmaster fees. Unfortunately Ticketmaster is owned by LiveNation, and they are far and away the biggest promoter. They sign exclusive rights with large venues. My loca…

Nope Ticketmaster shares fees with its clients, this is from the Ticketmaster help...

-----

The standard tickets sold on Ticketmaster are owned by our clients (venues, sports teams or other event promoters) who determine the number of tickets to be sold and set the face value price.

...

Ticket fees (which can include a service fee, order processing fee and sometimes a delivery fee) are determined in collaboration with our clients. In exchange for the rights to sell their tickets, our clients typically share in a portion of the fees we collect.

...

Service Fee and Order Processing Fee

In almost all cases, Ticketmaster adds a service fee (also known as a convenience charge) to the face value price, or in the case of a resale ticket to the listing price, of each ticket. The service fee varies by event based on our agreement with each individual client.

In addition to the per ticket service fee, an order processing fee is typically charged. Unlike the service charge, which is added to each ticket, the processing fee is charged once for each order. The processing fee offsets the costs of ticket handling, shipping and support and as a result, the processing fee is generally not charged on in-person box office purchases. In some cases, Ticketmaster's order processing costs may be lower than the order processing fee. In those cases, Ticketmaster may earn a profit on the order processing fee.

In both cases, these fees are collected by Ticketmaster and typically shared with our clients.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#428

Post by 13of40 »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #422
xkjyeah wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1/ attending a concert is not a civil right 2/ can't emphasize enough, but _get an ID_. While ID posession was used to discriminate against groups of people, the real problem here is "why doesn't everyone have an ID"?

Right, but I didn't say that attending a concert is a civil right. I also didn't say what the real problem was. What I brought up was, knowing this, is still using ID discriminatory?

Is it? In the US, I'm not aware of any way someone can legally drive, be employed, have a bank account, or get a cell phone without having an ID. At the same time, as long as you were registered at birth, getting an ID from scratch is a little bit of legwork and probably less than $100, and that's probably subsidized if you don't have income. The number of people walking around without an ID and no way to get one has to be vanishingly small. I'm sure there's a certain fringe of people who are undocumented, on the run from the law, or otherwise encumbered in their ability to get one, but how far should we bend over to get a ticket fee from those people?

Edit: Dang it, the best answers always come after I close my laptop. "It would be discriminatory if the government didn't provide people a way to get ID. As a business owner, that's beyond the scope of my responsibility. Same as if someone showed up without $5 and wanted to buy a sandwich." ...is another way to look at it.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#429

Post by nayuki »

iambateman wrote: post #406
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like theres a lot of missing legislation. The situation creates a huge conflict of interests. Then again, scalping itself out to be illegal; it’s just a form of exploiting someone else’s work to extract money from average folk without creating any value or meaningful work.

Scalping is exploitative and should be illegal when it’s for water and gasoline in a hurricane recovery zone. I’m unconvinced that there is a harm when the scalping is for section 102 row 14 seat 11 at a OneDirection concert. Lots of people want to vacation in Ibiza, so it’s expensive. Lots of people want to sit in section 102 row 14 seat 11, so it’s expensive too. Just because someone with more money buys the seat d…

Okay, so scalping is illegal in a hurricane. Is it also illegal for outsiders to choose not to provide goods to the sticken area because the sale price doesn't justify the cost? See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jKl-SgJQVc , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZuxdXmSoj4 , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFXYO1W_JXw .

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#430

Post by nayuki »

mpixel wrote: post #277
bko wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is only a problem because concert venues want to charge below market price and have the scalpers take the heat while they get their cut both ways. You can’t magically get around the market price. If you price too low you’ll have scalpers. If you beat the scalpers you’ll just have not enough tickets and a few people get tickets at below market value. Maybe that’s more fair but if you’re a fan that doesn’t feel co…

> People just don’t want to deal with the reality that the Taylor swift tickets that start at $40 or whatever were never real to begin with This. Here's a much more optimal semi-auction style solution. Tickets go on sale for 20 days, each day, all the seats and spots are worth the same price, you can buy anything, the price is always the same. Day 1, the price is $2000. Day 20, the price is $10. So you'd only pay $60…

I agree with you and that's called a Dutch auction or descending price auction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_auction

But inevitably, someone (such as the vocal people in this thread) is going to complain that it means only the richest fans can afford to attend the concert. No duh, being rich means you are able to afford things that some others can't.

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