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TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

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Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#421

Post by richbell »

hospitalJail wrote: post #217
nntwozz wrote: post #56

Just want to share these relevant videos from Asianometry: How Semiconductors Ruined East Germany https://youtu.be/cxrkC-pMH_s Why Europe Lost Semiconductors https://youtu.be/5ZdmS-EAbHo Europe’s Lost Decades in Semiconductors https://youtu.be/PpSdytrNEBg It's great to get chip manufacturing back to Germany after all the struggles, even if it's not cutting edge.

I watched a few of their videos, but I felt like it was an anti-china propaganda outlet. I'm def not a fan of the CCP, so I loved watching the videos, but I felt like I was getting brainwashed. Does anyone know how valid/factual their videos are?

Can you provide some examples of content you felt was anti-China propaganda / brainwashing?

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#422

Post by ryukoposting »

coolspot wrote: post #320
croes wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But cheap ones, not the best.

Each Tesla car carries 100 TFlops, same as PS5 .

I pity the man who looks at Tesla and says "Now THAT'S good engineering! We should emulate that!"

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#423

Post by ryukoposting »

visarga wrote: post #183
ho_schi wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im rather sure Robert Bosch and Infineon are aware of what chips they need. Obviously not the Zen 5, M3 or Meteor Lake. Germany needs CPUs for the industry. Cars, machines, planes, wind turbines and so on :) But you cannot build Personal-Computers with them? That failure is caused by Siemens (Siemens-Nixdorf) and AEG. In GDR/DDR they were close to build a 386 compatible CPU. The remaining knowledge is still somewhat…

Nowadays you need AI chips in cars too.

You can do machine learning on a Cortex-M4F. Ask me how I know.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#424

Post by ryukoposting »

I think folks here are missing the point of a fab like this. 16nm FinFET is space age technology by embedded systems standards. Nobody's expecting CPUs as advanced as Sandy Bridge to come out of this fab, let alone some bazillion-core 8GHz monster. The smallest transistor used in an STM32xx chip today is 40nm, and AFAIK that's reserved for the really fancy DSP chips.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#425

Post by ulfw »

AdamN wrote: post #14

Sort of incredible that Germany is getting decade old technology for this much investment.

They're building it for today's needs tomorrow. Sadly by the time this will come online plus another year or two in service the market might have already moved on to much higher performing embedded chips for EV products, which at the end will be sourced from Asia again.

It's all good and nice if private companies want to do this, they should know best after all. Spending another 5 billion on taxes on this is flabbergasting, especially in an area of the country that is incredibly foreigner-unfriendly (to say it mildly).

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#426

Post by coliveira »

t43562 wrote: post #355
coliveira wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't make Taiwan less critical for China. They will continue to defend Taiwan as part of China for the foreseeable future.

Not less critical but you see if they steal something the rest of the world needs then they can hold the world to ransom but if the rest of the world has alternatives then they can't. That has to change their calculations about when and how they will make a move.

Why do you think Taiwan reuniting with China would steal anything from the rest of the world? Nothing in Taiwan is owned by the rest of the world, Taiwan itself owns what they have. And the Chinese government will not stop selling what Taiwan produces.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#427

Post by coliveira »

xp84 wrote: post #417
coliveira wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA has guaranteed the demise of Taiwan by making it the next target of a global war. Everyone knows that China is not going back on a territory that is theirs by international treaties, and the US has practically declared they will fight to separate Taiwan from China. The only thing that remains for Taiwanese companies is to move from homeland into other countries as a way to survive. Actually, this is probably…

This is the most CCP comment I’ve read in years. Okay, Xi

This is a logical assessment of the situation, it doesn't matter you don't like it.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#428

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

ryukoposting wrote: post #424

I think folks here are missing the point of a fab like this. 16nm FinFET is space age technology by embedded systems standards. Nobody's expecting CPUs as advanced as Sandy Bridge to come out of this fab, let alone some bazillion-core 8GHz monster. The smallest transistor used in an STM32xx chip today is 40nm, and AFAIK that's reserved for the really fancy DSP chips.

Actual space age tech relies on outdated, large feature process nodes for the improved radiation hardening they offer. Terrestrial embedded is light years beyond what goes into space with any expectation of long term reliability.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#429

Post by askvictor »

AdamN wrote: post #14

Sort of incredible that Germany is getting decade old technology for this much investment.

Is this fab dependent on ASML's lithography tech? Given the backlog for their machines, perhaps going back a few generations an not being bleeding edge might make the fab much more feasible to get running sooner?

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#430

Post by ryukoposting »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #428
ryukoposting wrote: post #424

I think folks here are missing the point of a fab like this. 16nm FinFET is space age technology by embedded systems standards. Nobody's expecting CPUs as advanced as Sandy Bridge to come out of this fab, let alone some bazillion-core 8GHz monster. The smallest transistor used in an STM32xx chip today is 40nm, and AFAIK that's reserved for the really fancy DSP chips.

Actual space age tech relies on outdated, large feature process nodes for the improved radiation hardening they offer. Terrestrial embedded is light years beyond what goes into space with any expectation of long term reliability.

"space age" in the colloquial sense.
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