Live data from Hacker News

A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

mstdn.social

421–430 of 531 posts

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>* Consumers who care more about convenience and cost above all else, and reliability basically not at all Don't blame the consumer for this. It's just The Market For Lemons at work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons If you really need someone to blame, then blame the MBAs who buy up quality brands and then sell junk until the reputation is all ground up.

Consumers are actually the problem, just as voters are the main cause of bad politicians. Most people will say they want one thing, but actually want another. They want robust appliances, but they will buy the 199.99 ones, which forces even the most honest manufacturer into a race to the bottom, unless they target the luxury segment. An airline which I can't recall, found the same: people say the want more leg room o…

> They want robust appliances, but they will buy the 199.99 ones

That's unfair for many people. Not only do robust appliances cost significantly more, you also need to figure out which significantly more expensive model is also robust. You can't easily sample and replace a fridge when it's not the ideal one.

> found the same: people say the want more leg room or other comfort, but when it's the time to pay, most end up choosing the cheapest ticket.

There's nothing weird about it. Premium economy on the flight to my family is 2-3x the price on an already expensive flight. For my parents that's effectively equivalent to choosing: "visit once a year, or every 3 years".

This view of customers are the problem, they don't spend enough feels really bad - a disconnect of what people can realistically spend money on. There's many who need to consciously save for a few months to buy the $199 appliance.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#422
post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get a little tired of repeating this, but there are some good reasons why fridges (and most appliances) are the way they are now: * Strong regulation on energy use by appliances (modern fridges are much, much more efficient than ones from 70 years ago) * Extreme competition from companies all over the world * Consumers who care more about convenience and cost above all else, and reliability basically not at all The…

Similar to why the flying experience can be so awful - consumers by airline tickets based largely on price. The airlines that lower costs (and experience) best win.

And somewhat counterintuitively, they don't even make most of their profit off of ticket sales. The big players make almost all their money on the reward cards and membership systems. Some of them even take a loss on their ticket sales just to make the memberships more appealing.

In that scenario, there's little reason to make the flying experience great.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#423
post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not as much as you think - the people selling them want you to think the old ones were awful and need replacing, but they were designed for both reasonable efficiency and decades-long life. (You really need to factor in a literal 6-10x lifespan difference into efficiency and environmental impact figures, too...) I have a large 60s/70s vintage chest freezer I bought on Craigslist a few years ago. I worried that it was…

> it costs me only about a dollar a month to run The low end Frigidaires are estimated at $56 a year, perhaps $8 less per year for an Energy Star one. I don't know anything about chest freezers, but there's no way a general purpose 1960s/70s fridge that one opens multiple times a day gets anything close to that.

Chest freezers are automatically a lot more efficient. The cold air tends to stay in them when opened, unlike upright models.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#424
post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get a little tired of repeating this, but there are some good reasons why fridges (and most appliances) are the way they are now: * Strong regulation on energy use by appliances (modern fridges are much, much more efficient than ones from 70 years ago) * Extreme competition from companies all over the world * Consumers who care more about convenience and cost above all else, and reliability basically not at all The…

I mean even when you buy an expensive appliance, the majority of them still tend to break way too quickly and are just more costly to repair. I'd happily pay more for something well made, but, unless it's like commercial kitchen quality, it's still not "great"

You might happily pay more, but 99% of consumers won't. They just look at the sticker price + features and call it a day. And with the prices this low and trying to meet energy goals, reliability goes out the window.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#425
post #414

In Europe you can not buy a home vacuum with decent power simply because it is the law. https://commission.europa.eu/energy-climate-change-environme... You can argue that the law is well intentioned and even necessary. The end result is the same, my old cheapo Scarlett 1500W vacuum from 20 years ago does a better job that, AEG, Electrolux and even my new Miele. All of them are hard limited to 900W. Then again is it r…

Similar story in California. My pet peeves are water conserving toilets and washing machines that are so finicky to calibrate that they usually require two flushes or Cycles, defeating the entire purpose and wasting your time.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#426
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not even have to use commercial units. Go to Costco.com or HomeDepot.com or Lowes.com or BestBuy.com and you can filter for fridges without unnecessary frills and see many options. There are at least 7 different simple top freezers at Costco, and at least 3 French door freezers without even water dispensers. Not sure what else people want, other than to complain.

The thing that usually breaks on my refrigerators is the plastic shelves. They just don't seem designed to last more than 4 or 5 years at the most. I'm not sure how to filter for "has shelves that don't decompose when kept cool."

I've never seen fridge plastic decompose. What are you doing to those materials that makes them do that? I've never in my entire life's existence seen plastic inside a fridge that has "decomposed". I've just seen them get grey/cloudy over time if they're clear-plastic, and maybe crack. Besides that, indestructible.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>* Consumers who care more about convenience and cost above all else, and reliability basically not at all Don't blame the consumer for this. It's just The Market For Lemons at work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons If you really need someone to blame, then blame the MBAs who buy up quality brands and then sell junk until the reputation is all ground up.

Consumers are actually the problem, just as voters are the main cause of bad politicians. Most people will say they want one thing, but actually want another. They want robust appliances, but they will buy the 199.99 ones, which forces even the most honest manufacturer into a race to the bottom, unless they target the luxury segment. An airline which I can't recall, found the same: people say the want more leg room o…

> Consumers are actually the problem, just as voters are the main cause of bad politicians

Voters do not know that politician X worked for company Y before getting into politics and do not know that politician X will work again for Y or for Z after his mandate is over.

Consumers can only buy what is available. And quality is gone for good in military industrially capitalism.

One can be happy if the product lives the live it was designed to.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#428
post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just take a look at modern clothes washer agitators compared to the old ones. Huh? Good modern clothes washers don’t have agitators. Agitators clean well, but they are terrible for clothing. A good modern front loader cleans almost as well and damages your clothing much less in the process.

Last time I looked into it, I saw that the large, conical agitator had been replaced with a sort of agitator-plate that was much smaller. Part of that is it's also more efficient, iirc.

They are one of the most efficient washers in terms of water usage. i like them better than front loaders because of issues with the gasket like leaking and keep the gasket clean from mildew. Its just slower but with increased capacity. I can fit two queen sized comforters in mine with no issues.

https://www.consumerreports.org/top-load-he-washer/things-to...

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>* Consumers who care more about convenience and cost above all else, and reliability basically not at all Don't blame the consumer for this. It's just The Market For Lemons at work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons If you really need someone to blame, then blame the MBAs who buy up quality brands and then sell junk until the reputation is all ground up.

Consumers are actually the problem, just as voters are the main cause of bad politicians. Most people will say they want one thing, but actually want another. They want robust appliances, but they will buy the 199.99 ones, which forces even the most honest manufacturer into a race to the bottom, unless they target the luxury segment. An airline which I can't recall, found the same: people say the want more leg room o…

Can't speak for others, but I rarely buy the cheapest option for any kind of appliance... some, sure, when there are not any truly better options. I mean, I don't necessarily want to go all the way up to commercial models, but there's got to be some room for in-between.

I remember buying a washer-dryer a while back and the sales person was like, "this is kind of the Cadillac model." To which I responded, "what do you have in a Buick?"

It just sucks pretty much knowing that the "X-year" warranty won't actually cover the control board that changes every model year that is the most likely thing to break just outside of warranty anyway, or even if sooner, you won't be able to get replaced.

The main burner went out in my range (top cracked) and I'm pulling my hair out on picking a replacement oven/range... There are too many options, and quality is all over the map, even in the same brand/model from year to year. These things should have lifetimes measured in decades.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While old appliances have good features, LG and Samsung have earned a reputation of being bad. Whirlpool and GE still make some good stuff and they still sell parts. The reason you keep the old washer is the new versions legally cannot use as much water, and so they don't clean as well.

Oh you can buy the old wasteful washers if you still want them. They just don't got any EnergyStar ratings (in fact, people have been shopping around for "lack of EnergyStar" to find those old wasteful washers). But "they don't clean as well" is a bit of a myth. More water requires more soap, and as it turns out, shuffling clothes around with *proportionally more soap* and *less water* leads to better cleanliness for…

its the mix of water and soap. There is a fix amount of soap per liter water and kg of clothes. so its both
Post reply on HN