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France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

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Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#421
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the French Revolution was very-shortly-followed by the Terror, so we can hardly present this as a simple slow decline from a golden age.

The terror was fully part of the revolution, and was notably when the vote for France to proclame itself a Republic happened. Support for and against the king came and went throughout the revolution. The vote for abolition of monarchy in 92 (so, 3 years after it began!) and then for death penalty of the king in 93 was heavily influenced by the fear of retribution for whom may vote against. France would likely still b…

> FWIW, France became an empire, then was restored as a monarchy, then back an empire and monarchy before it became a republic durably.

You left out “republic again” between “restored as a monarchy” and ”back an empire” (and actually, even that leaves out the July Revolution which was a change between two different monarchies, and not just different monarchs, in 1830.)

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#422

France has been slowly drifting away from the democratic countries for the past decade, it's disheartening to watch it in real time…

> the democratic countries Which are those, and how is France worse?

Almost all EU, the UK, US, Australia, NZ, etc. Even though all of them are far from perfect, it's still significantly better than in most places elsewhere.

France is currently following a path close to what Hungary did before, with a steady reduction in press freedom, political freedom, and individual freedom, coupled to a progressive erosion of the rule of law (a significant recent example came from the protests regarding the pension reforms: the government started banning most protests, but the ban was almost systematically lifted by courts. Then the government took a shady approach: the protests were banned, but the official text for the ban weren't published anymore as they should, so it could not be contested in front of courts, and people who still went to the protests got arrested for “attending to a banned protest”, and detained up to 48 hours (no justification needed, no recourse) before being released with no charge).

For sure France isn't PRC, but there's a full spectrum between ideal democracies and totalitarian dystopia, and France is much closer to what's called “Illiberal democracies” than to the former.

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This bill AFIK only covers the "they are allowed to do it" part but not the "how do they gain the capability to do it" part. But spyware which can do so exists in endless amounts, including from companies focused on selling it to governments. Hence also why in recent years physical microphone switches, or e.g. stuff like (I think it was) Apple laptops "physically" disconnecting the microphone/camera if you close the…

iSight cameras had an LED that was supposedly unbypassable. Turns out that was bullshit and it was trivial to rewrite the iSight module's firmware.

That is the difference between something being firmware controlled and hardwired.

And for new macs the off switch for microphone/mic if the lid is closed is hard wired using some "dump circuit logic switch" AFIK.

The problem with lights (even if hard wired) is that you might still find ways to brake them, like finding a way to fry them without braking the camera or switching on/off so fast that it isn't really visible but you still get some image/sound you might be able to post process to a point where it's usable even if not grate. You probably can prevent this with further hard wired circuits, like a hard wired "super slow de-bouncer" which in a on-1->off-2->on makes sure 2 is prevented if not at least Xs passed since 1. And which in a off-2->on-3->off cycle makes sure the LED is on for at least Ys (the camera can be switched off faster, just not on again). But I don't think apple has something like that. At that points the question is why not put in physical switches like e.g. on Framework laptops or some older ThinkPads.

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#424
post #162

They could at least have the decency to just secretly do it and then pretend like they aren't, like our government does. This is why physical switches and removable batteries are the only way forward.

what is "our" government? this site is worldwide..

Pick one

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iSight cameras had an LED that was supposedly unbypassable. Turns out that was bullshit and it was trivial to rewrite the iSight module's firmware.

Could you reflash it without access to the device?

Probably, if you hacked a device to a point you have root access or worse it's not that uncommon that you are able to reflash firmware to custom firmware.

A lot of firmware, and firmware signature validation, is ... not very well done.

Practically it's often not worth it (you already had root+ access. It's doable, but not simple and less uniform applicable.).

But there have been known cases of viruses tryign to persist themself in the firmware of connected devices (which in this context includes all internal devices including the motherboard).

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#426
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this even possible on an iPhone? My memory may be failing me or confusing things so please correct me, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that the baseband lives segregated (with only a narrow communication cannel, kinda as if it were a remote machine) from the remainder of the hardware, so while it could be made to run stuff itself it has no way to physically access to main cpu, ram, mic, nor cams (barring, o…

Apple is good at /marketing/ their security, not being good at security.

I take pride in striving to form my opinions based on verifiable facts as discovered by third party sources, such as via work done by the Asahi Linux team†.

If I were buying into marketing I would not even have asked the question above in hopes of getting a hard reference to these kinds of details.

† e.g the following tidbits:

> The SEP is designed to be mutually isolated from the main CPU (AP); neither can compromise the other.

> No runtime blobs are designed to have total system access (no ME, no PSP, no TrustZone, nothing of that sort). Almost all blobs are running behind IOMMUs or similar firewalls, with the sole exception of the GPU firmware*. All code running on the main CPUs is under the control of the OS.

> AS machines use a large number of auxiliary firmware blobs, each dedicated to a specific purpose and running on a separate CPU core. This is better than having a smaller number of kitchen sink blobs (like Intel ME), since each blob can only affect a particular subsystem (e.g. display, storage, camera), which makes it harder for multiple blobs to collude in order to compromise the user in a meaningful way. For example, the blob running inside the keyboard controller has no mechanism to communicate with the blob running on the WiFi card, and thus cannot implement a keylogger surreptitiously; the blob running on the display controller similarly has no way to communicate with the network, and thus can't implement a secret screen scraper.

> From a security perspective, these machines may possibly qualify as the most secure general purpose computers available to the public which support third-party OSes, in terms of resistance to attack by non-owners. This is, of course, predicated on some level of trust in Apple, but some level of trust in the manufacturer is required for any system (there is no way to prove the non-existence of hardware backdoors on any machine, so this is not as much of a sticking point as it might initially seem).

> *it's worth pointing out that this firmware is not particularly large, is shipped in plain text and even with some symbols, does not have any functionality to talk via questionable interfaces (network, etc.), and is optional and not running when the OS boots (the OS must explicitly start it)

Which is an entirely different league than, say, Intel ME which completely owns the machine at the design level.

https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Introduction-to-Appl...

https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Apple-Platform-Secur...

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#427
post #51

That sounds very reasonable, similar to installing a bugging device in the house of a suspect, to gather more evidence. The neat thing about mobile phones is that such a bugging capability comes built-in. The police should certainly be allowed to use this in the course of investigative duties.

Yes, it sounds reasonable. It also sounds reasonable to allow police to enter anyone's home at any time - consider all the crime they might prevent if only they didn't have to wait for a warrant! It sounds reasonable to let the police shoot a fleeing suspect, because why are they running if they aren't guilty? It sounds reasonable to let the police look through any computer - how much CP is missed because they have t…

Is there a valid reason to run from the cops?

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#428
post #420
post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've (unfortunately) got a habit of accidentally assuming forums are "in the US". I think I would put it down to a couple of things: 1. Most native English speakers are in the US, so the accidental assumption that someone is American is more often than not correct. 2. The internal voice that reads text to me has a generic male American accent.

I'd be willing to bet that less than half of this site's users are American. There is a huge software engineering community in Europe, for example, and there are more Europeans than Americans, let alone the large populations of Asia, Australia, New Zealand... English is the dominant second language in the world.

I would agree with that, at least for this site. I wouldn't be surprised if the ratio was 1 to 10, since tech skews it significantly. For example, I work in tech in the US, and the only American I've spoken to today was my summer intern, and - oh hold up, I just typed that and realized she's from Canada. OK, I've been in work meetings all day and I have not spoken to a "US American" during that time. I suspect that other sites, particularly some subreddits, are mostly American, though.

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#430
post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The terror was fully part of the revolution, and was notably when the vote for France to proclame itself a Republic happened. Support for and against the king came and went throughout the revolution. The vote for abolition of monarchy in 92 (so, 3 years after it began!) and then for death penalty of the king in 93 was heavily influenced by the fear of retribution for whom may vote against. France would likely still b…

This entirely. The truth is messy and doesn’t make for an easy story.

Yeah, it's pretty incredible how many people look at these kind of events as point in times, e.g lots of French people answer "Bastille day" if you ask when the revolution happened, or some Americans answer "D-day" for when Europe was liberated.
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