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Plastics are poisoning us

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Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#421

Post by vkou »

Retric wrote: post #143
hospitalJail wrote: post #133

The word 'Plastic' needs to die. Instead we should be more specific on the type of plastic. Teflon, PLA, ABS, resins, foams, etc... are all plastics, but they are so unrelated outside their long chains, its terrible to stereotype them all into one category. You aren't going to get cancer from PLA or Teflon, but rather the manufacturing process. You can eat these plastics as far as I know and you'd be fine. Eat someth…

Teflon Aka Polytetrafluoroethylene cookware represents a health hazard. The stuff contains a great deal of Florine and breaks down at 300C, but that’s not purely binary instead it becomes increasingly unstable as your approach the temperature. Further no manufacturing process is perfect, I wouldn’t therefore assume eating significant quantities would be safe. That said, it’s generally used as a coating rather than a…

> PS: Toothpaste which you should mostly spit out generally contains less than 0.5% fluoride compounds such as sodium fluoride NaF or tin fluoride SnF2, the F in both being Florine.

And table salt is made out of Sodium and Chlorine, one of which is explosive when mixed with water, and the other is used to gas soldiers in trenches if you're into committing war crimes.

What matters is what effect the particular chemical has when you put it through common household uses, not the effect of its constituent parts.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#422

Post by swalling »

jf22 wrote: post #140
amake wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it was too late to ban lead from gasoline because everyone alive at the time had already been exposed.

I think the person meant it is too late to avoid consequences, but not too late to take action.

Correct. Eliminating plastic pollution will be a benefit not to us, but to our children's children. The same with reducing carbon emissions.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#423

Post by yulker »

asoneth wrote: post #417
grimgoldgo wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are regularly burning food in steel or iron pans, maybe it's time to understand why? I cook in exclusively iron and steel cookware and I cannot remember the last time something got burned (excepting when I deliberately charred something.)

I have been learning how to season, cook with, and clean cast iron. As someone who did not grow up using it it’s definitely not intuitive. The other challenge is that I either have to lock it away or teach everyone else in the household how to care for it. At various points in my life I’ve had coatings ruined by roommates, partners, guests, and housekeepers who did things that seemed perfectly sensible like letting i…

Soapy water won't break down the molecularly bonded fat and iron on your cast iron. If you mistake leftover grease for seasoning, then sure, soapy water will get rid of it.

The trick to not sticking on steel pan is just preheating it properly. A drop of water should dance on a properly heated steel pan and things won't stick. Just let it get hot enough.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#424

Post by tfourb »

nukeman wrote: post #145
tfourb wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how the "it's to late to do anything about it" is supposed to contribute to this debate. It's also factually wrong. The production of new plastics could be drastically reduced through regulation of both the production itself and its use cases. Most food and drink containers could be made from non-plastic materials. I've built a house that uses maybe 5% of the plastic that is common in construction where I li…

I’m curious to hear about what you did with the house (I’m thinking about building/renovating a house in a few years). Did you go DIY or hire a contractor? What were some of your replacements for plastics?

A note on the contractor question: The basic construction of the house is quite simple (post and beam not too dissimilar to the German "Fachwerk") and given the right tools and location could be done completely DIY. Check out this YouTube channel for traditional wood framing techniques: https://www.youtube.com/@KrisHarbour Our contractors used a more modern design approach and metal fasteners but it is basically the same basic construction.

Professional contractors have professional equipment for this type of construction, though and can put it together really quickly. The basic framing of the house was constructed over a couple of months or so off site (with mostly two guys being involved, I think), transported in pieces to the build site and put together over the span of five days, including the roof construction. The insulation and OSB were added over the span of a few weeks.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#425

Post by etch-ray_specs »

ericpauley wrote: post #414
mrybczyn wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4. Biking - way more energy efficient - you'll get more MPG (Miles-Per-Gnocci).

Depending on the carbon footprint of the food you eat to power that bicycle the effective MPG may actually be quite poor. A e-bike has lower emissions than a cyclist powered by lentils.

Any source for this?

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#426

Post by caeril »

kurthr wrote: post #360
Retric wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s a direct quote from your link: “Health Risks of Teflon Coating Teflon is generally safe, but heating it to above 300 degrees Celsius or 570 degrees Fahrenheit poses a danger to your health.” Note they didn’t say Teflon was safe at 299C, the risk is chemical breakdown not a phase transition like water which boils at a specific temperature and pressure. When used properly pans shouldn’t get anywhere close to tha…

All the carbohydrates will be coated with Acrylamide or burnt to a crisp. Acrylamide is believed to be a carcinogen (Acrylamide is converted to a compound called glycidamide , which causes mutations in and damage to DNA) and shown to be in animal models. Once you're frying, roasting, and grilling things at this temperature you are increasing cancer risk completely unrelated to any cooking materials involved. That's t…

Hate to be the raving "seed oils are going to kill you" guy, but Acrylamide can be greatly reduced by swapping your vegetable-based cooking oil with something like tallow, lard, or coconut oil: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27374529/

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#427

Post by CrHn3 »

anigbrowl wrote: post #334
hospitalJail wrote: post #133

The word 'Plastic' needs to die. Instead we should be more specific on the type of plastic. Teflon, PLA, ABS, resins, foams, etc... are all plastics, but they are so unrelated outside their long chains, its terrible to stereotype them all into one category. You aren't going to get cancer from PLA or Teflon, but rather the manufacturing process. You can eat these plastics as far as I know and you'd be fine. Eat someth…

Maybe the solution is better labeling. No, we are awash in labels already and I am sick of everything having a legal treatise attached to it. Labels just throw the problem back in the laps of consumers, an approach which clearly does not work.

Target is an example of labels working and allowing consumers to be informed while still taking responsibility at the corporate level.

They have a chemical policy[1] that is moving in the right direction, and labels like Oeko-Tex 100, Oeko-Tex Made in Green, Clean Beauty, BPA Free, Paraben Free and Recycled. The changes they are making as a part of their chemical policy (eliminating PFAS and other concerning chemicals from cleaning and baby items) are benefiting everyone, and consumers who have specific concerns can quickly get more information about what they are buying. Most consumers are increasingly aware of risks, but most do not have the desire or time to look into the manufacturing process for everything they buy.

1. https://corporate.target.com/sustainability-ESG/environment/...

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#428

Post by kelipso »

kitkat_new wrote: post #406
kelipso wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, except I wash it like once in a blue moon lol.

I have to at least rub the area where I drink otherwise it will smell within less 2 days

I don't usually touch the bottle with my mouth, so I guess that allows for a bit more leeway.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#429

Post by earthling8118 »

hirundo wrote: post #354
grimgoldgo wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are regularly burning food in steel or iron pans, maybe it's time to understand why? I cook in exclusively iron and steel cookware and I cannot remember the last time something got burned (excepting when I deliberately charred something.)

Please don't take your skill in this for granted. It's a gift. I've been using cast iron pans sporadically for four decades, following all of the common advice, and failing magnificently every time. I still use one occasionally to put a crust on a steak ... and then use a small piece of chainmail[1] to defeat the klingons. It's not that I don't believe you. It just doesn't work that way in my pan on my stove with my…

I would probably give up on cooking if I had to buy a new set of pans every year. That sounds entirely ridiculous. It's seriously not some special gift to be able to cook on a carbon steel, stainless steel, or cast iron pan. I've even trained people who have never cooked before in a single cooking session. Were they perfect right away? Nope. But it isn't that difficult and learned quickly after a few solo attempts

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#430

Post by f38zf5vdt »

hospitalJail wrote: post #133

The word 'Plastic' needs to die. Instead we should be more specific on the type of plastic. Teflon, PLA, ABS, resins, foams, etc... are all plastics, but they are so unrelated outside their long chains, its terrible to stereotype them all into one category. You aren't going to get cancer from PLA or Teflon, but rather the manufacturing process. You can eat these plastics as far as I know and you'd be fine. Eat someth…

Ester bonds are not usually dangerous. Wait until you find out what all the natural and synthetic flavorants inside your food are!

As far as polyesters go, the main cause for concern is the endocrine disrupting effect of polyethylene terephthalate[1] and the inability of PET to be broken down completely, leading to microplastic pollution. By contrast, PLA can be broken down by heat or a select number of micro-organisms, and the lactic acid monomer used to produce it is non-toxic. The polymer is formed by a simple condensation reaction to form ester linkages, releasing water. Esters are a very common and generally benign moiety found everywhere in nature, for example in cutin found in plants, forming the rigid exterior of cells exposed to the elements. [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene_terephthalate

[2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11217409/

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