Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

Post by spookie » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 5:50 PM UTC

leereeves wrote: post #415

spookie wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we all know Nazi Germany was only fighting against the Soviets between '40-'45. Truly, the use of U.S. and U.K. bombers that incapacitated Berlin's war machinery production never happened. The western side of the war was dealt with promptly, leaving only in the east, the Soviets to repent the Nazis. It was the pure will of the Soviets which led them to their, and only their victory. I don't even know what to say…

The Soviets bore the brunt of the fight against Germany. Roughly two-thirds of German casualties were on the Eastern Front, and the Soviets killed or captured about 9 million Axis soldiers, more than double the entire population of Finland in 1940. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)#C... Edit: What do you think would have happened if they had sent 10m soldiers to Finland instead of 500k?

Post by BurningFrog » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 6:05 PM UTC

yeahwhatever10 wrote: post #226

INTPenis wrote: post #157

As a Swede this makes me happy, partially because Finland shares a lot of their border with Russia and can now feel safe knowing they have the might of 30 nations behind them, but also because we're now surrounded by NATO countries. So no need for us to join, right? Right?! Let's remain neutral and a free haven for political dissidents and potential refugees of the future, right?!!

Is that how NATO is spoken about in Europe, that it is the might of 30 nations and not just the US?

Post by 908B64B197 » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 6:07 PM UTC

coffeebeqn wrote: post #315

908B64B197 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, one of the greatest feat of the EU and NATO is the integration of countries like Poland and Romania to the west. These two countries were economically and socially stunted by decades of communist mismanagement, failed socialism and outright theft and genocide from Russia. It's been truly incredible to see them grow and prosper.

And hopefully soon Ukraine

Post by throwaway894345 » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 6:10 PM UTC

ranger207 wrote: post #245

throwaway894345 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many NATO countries has Russia attacked in the history of NATO? How many non-NATO countries? Moreover, Finland’s military and diplomatic bureaucracy was already well-integrated into NATO, so there isn’t a _lot_ of additional organization (at least as far as these things go).

During the time period that NATO existed, the USSR invaded Czechoslovakia and Hungary. Expanding back a few years before the creation of NATO (which I'd argue is a reasonable allowance because a a defensive pact it was formed directly in response to some of these events), you can also include the invasions of Poland and the Baltic states

Post by The_Colonel » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 6:13 PM UTC

ilyt wrote: post #287

The_Colonel wrote: post #4

Finland got de-Finlandized at last. Which is what the expansion of NATO was always about. NATO isn't a threat to Russia itself - if Russia seriously feared NATO aggression, it wouldn't voluntarily demilitarize its NATO borders during the past 13 months. NATO expansion just neutralizes Russian ability to force its will upon its neighbors through threat of aggression (or in case like Ukraine through the use of aggressi…

> if Russia seriously feared NATO aggression, it wouldn't voluntarily demilitarize its NATO borders during the past 13 months. I mean, yeah, but the reason is probably just "we need more shit to shoot at civilians in UA" rather than "we don't fear NATO invasion"