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The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

421–430 of 514 posts

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have no longer any "great struggle" to concern ourselves with. Recommended film: Adam Curtis' Hypernormalisation.

Not sure I understand you. Nor do I understand why I've been downvoted into oblivion. Also - I have watched Hypernormalization. Found the facts that it presented to be highly interesting. Worth watching just for that. But the overall narrative I found to be pretty unconvincing.

I wanted to say that, basically, life is so easy now compared to previous generations. In the West, we have mostly all that we need. As a result of human psychology, our brains seem to create "non-problems" in order to occupy themselves, or at least the mass media are exceedingly good at this...

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#422
Social media. Overly medicated. Sold a raw deal with college tuition costs. Social justice and their desire, and ultimately heavy mental weight of trying to change people and systems. Intolerance of those that think differently or disagree. The Media divisiveness machine. Their own families dividing themselves over political differences. All these things are incredibly sad.

I think social media is the main culprit, but there's a lot behind that.

I think PG's identity essay comes into play.

"Most people reading this will already be fairly tolerant. But there is a step beyond thinking of yourself as x but tolerating y: not even to consider yourself an x. The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you." [1]

As teenagers pick up all these various identities and labels, it makes them dumber. And it's also exhausting for them mentally to defend them or champion them.

A teen may have as part of their identity: atheist, climate change activist, transgender rights activist, feminist, liberal Democrat, goth, aspiring influencer, etc.

Back when I went to school, you might just be a jock or a nerd but it wasn't anything you felt compelled to defend. There weren't that many identities or groups organizing to recruit you to their cause. You didn't have the weight of putting all your time in so many things AND maintain some bullshit presence on social media.

So how do you address this? Only thing I can think is to help our young people develop a mindset or philosophy for dealing with bullshit. How to be resilient in a dynamic world that really gives zero fucks about you. Once you accept that as a fact, I think it is infinitely easier to be happy.

I had a professor say once something like "nobody gives a shit about you except maybe your family and a few close friends" and that you need to be compelling and memorable. The class was about helping students reflect on that and how they wanted to tackle the world.

I already had that kind of outlook at the time, but you'd be surprised at how many students had a completely stunned look on their face because they were raised in an environment where they were the center of their parents' lives and were told that everyone loves them, that they are super special and that if they go to school, do this, do that, then they'll be good. So the professor shocked them with that statement.

In my opinion, that's part of the core issue. We aren't preparing our youth with this mindset. And they get frustrated when they take their identities and dreams and run into the world's brick wall. It overwhelms them. As Neil deGrasse Tyson was told by his father - it's not enough to be right, you must be effective.

If we teach them to accept that the world gives zero shits about them and that they need to develop skills to be compelling, then they can be more effective and get more reward.

I'm not advocating for that message to just be dropped on teens as is, although I think all universities should have that course along with personal finance. But when raising kids and in our elementary and high schools, we should be challenging them in a way that let's them know that if they want their way in anything, they should think of compelling reasons and they should be able to articulate those reasons without raging on others, to be effective.

Ultimately it's the fault of the parents and society. People are showing kids that it is ok to just rage on your friends and family when you find out they disagree with you. Defriend, talk shit behind their back. Constantly comparing themselves to others. We've been grooming citizens with strong identities with every form of media and built systems around divisiveness and social outrage. It's a nefarious engine that rips families, friends and communities apart. And this leads to mental illness with teenagers and their parents too.

The only solution is to try and disconnect from that engine. It's extremely powerful though. May take a generation unless someone or something with major influence is able to connect with the youth in a meaningful way.

[1] http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#423

Is it possibly because they're not sleeping with each other? Seems to be all over the news lately, the decline of young people having sex. The older I get, the less I see sex as optional for human health and well-being. There's no time you crave it more than adolescence, so going without it then could be even more damaging. Sex is not just a fun experience, it's a basic psychological need. Both the left and right in…

Let's see.. it was simultaneous and synchronized across the Anglophone countries in the early 2010s. It's sort of peculiar for Puritanism to appear suddenly and simultaneously in widely distant countries that share a common language but have different cultures, right? No, I think the change in phones and what they enabled in social media is a better explanation.

The decline in young people's sexual activity is a recent event: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-have-been-...

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#424
post #296

I'm a father of teen kids, teacher and educator. I don't think that there is a single reason here. All mentioned things contribute – social media pressure, climate problems, economical crisis etc. But I'd like to add another one – declining quality of education. I see increasing number of teens depressed because they don't have teachers and their education isn't good enough for jobs they'd like to get in future. And…

I'm not sure you can blame problems such as climate change, economic issues -- every generation had its own existential crisis: WW2, Korea, Vietnam, numerous recessions and until 1990, recent generations lived under the specter of the atom bomb. I think it's social media, that's what's really changed: Every single teenager is now comparing themselves against every other kid in the world instead of just their local pe…

20 years ago, when you finished your school day, week, or semester, you could go home, on vacation, etc., and not have any contact with your schoolmates unless you wanted to. Nowadays, you see them and they can interact with you or talk about you 24/7 on social networks. There's no escaping your bully by hiding at home anymore, as you can be publicly bullied on social platforms all the time. This is likely a terrible experience for many young people. Additionally, the constant feeling of inadequacy due to having fewer likes, comments, or friends on your profile compared to the popular kids can be quite disheartening.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#425
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explains it rather well: older people dismiss their symptoms as “not real illness” because that’s what society taught them when they were kids.

Would a decrease in such dismissal would also explain the increase in hospitalisation rates for self harm? I personally doubt it. (Edit: and whoever downvoted me would help a great deal by explaining how exactly an increase in hospitalisation rates are an indication that we take this stuff more seriously. A wound remains a wound.)

I think it might. I firmly believe that mental issues can be compounded by too much empathy and care. Too much 'awareness'.

Sometimes sucking it up is, psychologically, the right answer, and results in a more resilient individual. (Not all the time, perhaps not most of the time. But sometimes.)

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've replied above (due to rate-limiting timeout, had to capture my thoughts there earlier). I have no interest in stopping consenting adult trans or any other person from any surgery/treatment, regardless of how efficacious or not it is. But do not make the mistake of believing because it is the only medically accepted treatment of gender dysphoria (which is curiously a treatment for something that is not even a dis…

(I wrote this reply as a comment edit originally, but I'm making this it's own comment.) I understood your comment to be against social acceptance of trans people, (and honestly still do. Admittedly this isn't a best-faith interpretation of your comment, but it made sense in the context I read it in. ) Therefore, my comment wasn't intended to be only about available medical treatment options (including surgical), but…

I have to admit I've had to try really hard to not get sucked into this side debate on the efficacy of transition. I've found conflicting data here, I'm willing to acknowledge it may be true that it leads to better outcomes for many individuals. In any case, as I've said, there's little I can act on there as I have no right to impose that kind of control on others.

I am intrigued by the intersectionality of transition and social acceptance. You seem to have been following some research here, what have you found regarding the social acceptance of trans persons before and after transition? Are they finding more social acceptance after treatment?

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#427
I think the smartphone theory is plausible, which I translate as follow: we've become programmable.

I grew up in the 80s with a material wealth that is probably 10% of what modern teenagers have. The era also contained a massive economic crisis with actual record high unemployment and interest rates triple the current "high" rate. Also, the nuke could drop any day.

I don't remember spending much thought on any of it at all nor was I worried about any future. Why would I? I'm a teenager, I spent the early teens largely outside playing with friends and the late teens partying.

However, if I'd replay my childhood in modern age conditions, I'm sure I would have been far more miserable. That's what I mean with it being programmable. Modern teens are far more lonely than I was and spent that lonely time filling their head with garbage at a very critical part in their development. They've already given up before they even started.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#428
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explains it rather well: older people dismiss their symptoms as “not real illness” because that’s what society taught them when they were kids.

To me that seems like a purely post-hoc argument with no evidence to justify it. For instance, imagine that the data were showing the opposite effect, that is, adults having a significantly greater increase in depression and anxiety than teenagers. If that were the case, one could just as easily argue that it fits with the "our societies are so advanced that we can listen to mental illnesses" hypothesis quite well, b…

I can only speak to my own experience but I suspect there is some generational component to the increased awareness of mental health issues.

I was in high school during late 90's and early 00's. I was not diagnosed with anything until 2009 (around the articles timeline) looking back in hindsight I struggled with issues for years, lack of energy (some days just dragging myself out of bed was chore), lack of motivation to do anything, I avoided socializing with people I had no energy to stay in touch with friends I would make excuses to avoid hanging out with people all of the time because I never felt up to it.

If I spoke up to family members etc I was told what I was going through was normal, everyone feels tired, in essence to suck it up and stop being a wimp. It got to the point I just assumed everyone felt the way I did all of the time.

It wasn't until by chance I saw a different and younger doctor one day for an unrelated health issue I mentioned (again) how tired I felt all the time lack of energy I had it was explained to me that what I was experiencing very much not normal. That was the first time anyone took what I was saying seriously. My life drastically improved afterwards. I was 24 at the time.

When I was a teenager no one talked about mental health it just wasn't done. So I would not be surprised if some component of the statistics is an increased willingness among medical personnel to notice and diagnose the issues.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#429

(Seemingly) Inevitable climate change and ecological destruction, growing income inequality and falling standards of living, a deathly pandemic that's still killing people while we pretend everything is back to normal (+ long covid probably bringing about a disability crisis in 3-5 years), increasing tensions between various nuclear-capable states (Russia, China) and the West, changes in the age distribution in most…

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Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I DESPISED my first job (I delivered newspapers), but the independence it afforded me, the ability to buy clothes I like, to invest in a computer of my own and to take my girlfriend on dates was extremely fulfilling. Productive work, in general, is fulfilling even if you don't happen to like your current "job." It is not the job itself, it is the act of taking action in order to achieve your values. If you value prod…

My first job was delivering newspapers, too. I didn't despise it, it was easy work, nobody looking over my shoulder, the pay was good enough to put money in my pocket. Fundamentally, people value what they work to achieve. Things gotten without effort are not valued. BTW, having a job does look good on a college application.

Our teens problem might be they only value the number of likes on their profile. Note that I won't get any credit to what I'm saying : I have less than 10 followers.
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