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Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

congress.gov

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Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#421

Post by olkingcole »

alexose wrote: post #324
eganist wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking at least with my background: Foreign adversaries have learned exactly how to weaponize our free and open internet against our own people. Regardless of the fact that our kids are most vulnerable, China's seemingly made a point of outsourcing their most polarizing algorithmic decisions to the rest of the world but not to their own population, which is essentially a tacit admission of their awareness of the da…

> China's seemingly made a point of outsourcing their most polarizing algorithmic decisions to the rest of the world but not to their own population Exactly. We're a decade into the social media experiment now, and it's absolutely clear that it in its current form it doesn't make us smarter, it doesn't make us happier, and it doesn't bring us closer. If anything, it makes people sick and it weakens the social fabric.…

Thank you for this comment. I would like to add that social media and foreign manipulation thereof has been demonstrated to be spectacularly capable of affecting peoples' mental states and beliefs and by extension our stability as a country. We haven't figured out how to deal with it yet in a way that balances with our values of free speech and enterprise but a platform with tiktok's pervasiveness taking orders directly from the Chinese government is a huge, bright and shining risk that our government knows it needs to address.

Not to mention the data collection.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#422

Post by retinaros »

Dalewyn wrote: post #365
einpoklum wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but [the USA] is bound by the rule of law Of course it is! and storks deliver babies and the moon is yellow because it's made of cheese. > [The USA] isn't actively imprisoning millions in concentration camps It's actively imprisoning millions in prisons. What's the difference between a prison and a concentration camp? Perhaps the guards twirling their evil mustache more?

You are able to write your comment criticizing the US government (Congress) because we follow the rule of law and that rule of law includes the 1st Amendment guarantee to freedom of speech and expression. China has no such protections and guarantees.

yeah ask how people who backed trump fared once he lost? ban from social circles, political oponents “tracking” the people who worked with him or under him so that “they never have jobs anymore”. its just one example. just like china, if you are on the bad side you don’t exist anymore. see assange.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#423

Post by NLPaep »

boopmaster wrote: post #394
withinboredom wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [The] US government does not want any possibility of US citizens' data being in the hands of China. Yeah, except that any business can just buy that information. I can buy your day-to-day movements for dirt cheap. I own a non-American company (though I'm still an American citizen, but that isn't a factor), and it is insanely cheap to get information about any American you want. Hell, BingBot will tell you all about…

I’m not sure which part of our national security surveillance state apparatus is endangered by foreign ownership, but I assume at face value that there is some very embarrassing facts that our local spooks are not keen to share with China. What does the great firewall of America look like, from the infrastructure & interface angle? Would we want to share that with China? Your Google searches and all your metadata tha…

No jurisdiction? They threaten your family back home.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#424

Post by withinboredom »

throwaway29812 wrote: post #384
withinboredom wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a meeting last summer with some Americans and I jokingly said “meh, it’s a free country.” They all quickly pointed out that it wasn’t, any more. I still have family there and still visit for nearly a month out of the year. The number of people running red lights has gone up significantly the last few visits. To the point where I feel like I’m driving in Bali and not the US. People are more rude now than they us…

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdote Your experience is not everyones experience. For example, the country you describe has 0% resemblance to the one I know. Why should your experience matter more than mine? Are you actually proposing that your experiences are in some way typical ?

Every American expat I know has a similar-ish process where they have to get over the fear/anxiety from living in the US. It’s a proper dinner topic. So yes, I assume it’s typical. Perhaps not 1:1, but there are always similar elements.

Edit to add: everyone says they never noticed it while living there. They only noticed it after the first few months/years when it was no longer present.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#425

Post by pixl97 »

boopmaster wrote: post #394
withinboredom wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [The] US government does not want any possibility of US citizens' data being in the hands of China. Yeah, except that any business can just buy that information. I can buy your day-to-day movements for dirt cheap. I own a non-American company (though I'm still an American citizen, but that isn't a factor), and it is insanely cheap to get information about any American you want. Hell, BingBot will tell you all about…

I’m not sure which part of our national security surveillance state apparatus is endangered by foreign ownership, but I assume at face value that there is some very embarrassing facts that our local spooks are not keen to share with China. What does the great firewall of America look like, from the infrastructure & interface angle? Would we want to share that with China? Your Google searches and all your metadata tha…

>China has no jurisdiction over you… there’s no real punishing to relate to what you have viewed on TikTok, so why are your viewing habits a threat to national security?

I mean, I mostly agree with what your saying above this, but this particular line I disagree with.

People get blackmailed all the time for different reasons. If I'm looking for a person in a hardware/software company that has weaknesses, having a full view of their social media is a great starting place.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#426

Post by RandallBrown »

twoodfin wrote: post #385
sebzim4500 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Between 2003 and 2006, nearly two hundred thousand National Security Letters were issued to obtain personal/financial history of US citizens without any judicial review. This data was only used for one terrorism related conviction, and it is generally considered that this conviction would have happend even without the act.

Why would you expect NSL’s to be used in criminal convictions? What does that have to do with national security? Isn’t the whole point of an NSL to get something for legitimate national security purposes that couldn’t be legitimately acquired for criminal prosecution?

If you're doing something that threatens the nation's security, you're probably committing a crime.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#427

Post by yed »

eternalban wrote: post #352
remarkEon wrote: post #249

The media coverage of this (and the title of this submission, which I argue should be changed to the actual title of the bill) are really confusing everyone - both in here and elsewhere. There is a Senate bill[1] called "S.85 - No TikTok on United States Devices Act", which is very short and seems to only do one thing, and that's ban TikTok. This bill is in committee. There is another Senate bill[2], called "S.686 -…

1. (D) TIMING.—The term “covered transaction” includes a current, past, or potential future transaction. 2. (I) A group, subgroup, or other association or organization whether or not organized for profit. [like an OSS project on github?] 3. (1) IN GENERAL.—It shall be unlawful for a person to violate, attempt to violate, conspire to violate, or cause a violation of any regulation, order, direction, mitigation measure…

The bill only applies to companies where a foreign national from an adversary country has a "controlling holding". i.e., none of the companies you listed or any other American owned company are subject to it at all.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#428

Post by retinaros »

bioemerl wrote: post #415

The operatives in China's social manipulation groups are laughing while reading this thread because you all are doing their work for free. I don't think you guys understand here how important a bill like this is, and how much of a threat China is to us. This bill could be modified to restrict its usage more, and that would be good, but at the end of the day we must take action against the fact that China has such a m…

sure fb and instagram are better or even vine was better. onlyfans? beautiful app definitly lifting people out of poverty.

I remember the trump days. the same democrats pushing for a ban where calling trump racist for his anti-china policies. what a 180 from all our enlightened benefactors and democrats thinkers

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#429

Post by setgree »

jedberg wrote: post #407
gorwell wrote: post #214

Did anyone notice that the bill doesn't even mention Tiktok??? If it's a "bill to ban TikTok" why doesn't it name the target? It's a red herring. This is the Patriot Act for the Internet. Ironically they're copying the CCP playbook and want the same level of sweeping control with the implementation of a Great Firewall. It's extremely broad and includes everything connected to the internet that has >1M users in a year…

Because it's unconstitutional to make a law that targets a specific person or company. They have to be subtle and use generic terms to describe who is affected by the law in a way where TikTok ends up being the only company that qualifies right now. It's also good practice because it prevents TikTok from just making a new company that is exactly the same. Edit: changed illegal to unconstitutional because someone belo…

It is not illegal for Congress to target specific products. I do not know where you got that impression. Laws can be deemed unconstitutional upon review, but Congress literally defines what is legal or not.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#430

Post by bendbro »

From my quick reading of this bill doesn't it only possibly apply if a foreign entity owns or controls some impactful US tech? The gate of the owner being a foreign entity seems like a strong enough protection for US citizens from this bill.
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