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IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

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Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#421

Post by alright_scowl »

panick21_ wrote: post #408
kazen44 wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how where people not asked if they wanted to join? mind you, European integration is a major political pillar in national politics of basically all countries inside of europe and its periphery. People vote on parties based on there political program, and most people seem to want to vast economic benefits being a member states brings. (heck, ukraine is basically fighting a war at the moment about an issue which basica…

I mean those problems are well understood. There are not that many parties to vote for and people vote for the party they dislike least. Some of those parties wanted to join the EU. In general it was elites that wanted to join the EU, not the party base. People might have voted social domestic because they wanted domestic labor laws but instead their country was integrated in essentially a super-national state. The r…

> There are not that many parties to vote for and people vote for the party they dislike least

This is democracy at its finest.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#422

Post by defrost »

BenjiWiebe wrote: post #381
defrost wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of interest, where do you live on the light polltion map [1], Bortle scale [2]? Do you have any sense of what you're missing out on or how bright and distracting tens of thousands of LEO sats glinting in the sun are, or to what degree they mess up long exposure visible astronomy shots, or the noise they make for radio astronomy? I have no issue believing that you find "complaints about visual pollution silly" ..…

I live in Bortle class 3 and I don't notice more satellites now when star gazing then I remember 10 years ago. The hundreds of starlink satellites are totally invisible to me, except sometimes right after launch. A starlink satellite train is amazing to watch and I'd love to see it a few more times. EDIT The light pollution that really bothers me is the terrestrial light pollution. There's several cities within an ho…

FWiW I'm deep in class one area with no human glows on the horizon at night .. and in a large radio quiet zone - save fromn the chatter of unsheilded LEO sats above.

Some are switched off on over pass, many aren't.

I look forward to when all constellations are set to shut up when over head and the their surface an attitude are altered to minise reflection.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#423

Post by ClumsyPilot »

Ambolia wrote: post #84
concordDance wrote: post #44

Does it annoy anyone else that the title says "Musk's Starlink"? Yes, it was his idea and he is the main driving force and owns half of the company, but any project like this is a collaborative effort between tens of thousands of people.

Those thousands won't get blamed personally if it fails. But Musk will be.

What are you talking about, CEOs take no responsebility.

Look at any recent disasters caused by companies, such as recent train crash with a toxic spill, boeing Max scandal, BP oil spill, 2008, anything.

Where has the CEO been personally punished?

Or does your idea of 'blamed' mean people will write something mean on twitter?

the press announce ment where CEO of Boeing took full responsebility for Boeing Max failure, CEOs of major banks took reaponsebility for 2008,

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#424

Post by kortilla »

j_san wrote: post #80
RedShift1 wrote: post #30

I don't like putting more junk into LEO than we absolutely have to because it disrupts our space telescopes (which the EU has also invested over 1 billion euro in). I much rather have the funding go to improving land based internet infrastructure.

I'm european and dont like thousands of satelites swirrling around in the sky as well but I'd rather have government-founded satelites for the public benefit than from some way-too-rich sociopath's private company. Of course - this project would probably not exist without Starlink, so credit where credit is due. Personally I find it quite sad that we're destroying the night sky in the sense that before these projects…

You can’t see Starlink satellites with your eye unless they are in sunlight while the ground is not (so a vary narrow time of day and set of satellites given a particular location).

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#425

Post by coutego »

Pungsnigel wrote: post #253
permo-w wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that’s strange. every EU-related thread I’ve ever seen has had highly ranked comments poo-pooing whatever it is they’re planning to do. what’s your position on the EU? perhaps I notice the negative comments more because I’m very pro-EU, and vv for you?

Well EU != Europe for one. I’m positive to Europe, (mostly) negative on EU. Could be you are both right.

You are right: here in the EU we often refer to ourselves as 'Europeans', thus implicitly excluding people from the non EU part of Europe. That's inacurate (and a bit disrespecful to non-UE Europeans, if you ask me). For that reason I try to always use the expressions 'EU' and 'EU citizen' instead of 'Europe' and 'European'.

Which reminds me that USA != America, also. It would be perfect we should not have to deduce from context when 'American' refers to anyone from the whole continent, from Canada to Chile, or just someone from the US. I guess it would be more practical to use 'US' and 'US citizen', for clarity...

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#426

Post by panick21_ »

tpmx wrote: post #419
panick21_ wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Switzerland and we help finance that stuff. Specially the Vega rocket, a total piece of crap that shouldn't exist.

Well, you're making some money off it via RUAG.

I mean we can just hand RUAG some money instead of blowing up a rocket.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#427

Post by edgyquant »

uoaei wrote: post #344
sebzim4500 wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren't really any rural areas in Europe, by American standards.

I think you should review the definition of "rural" then.

No he’s right and this is brought up here all the time. There are large swathes of America where people don’t have neighbors for miles (sometimes tens of miles) while there are comparatively few places in Europe that meet this definition.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#428

Post by karmakaze »

playingalong wrote: post #306
karmakaze wrote: post #207

So it seems that each group of nations needs/wants physical networks because it's not enough to use encrypted communication on others'. How many is enough, 3, 4, more? Is this solvable with a single network? e.g. Is there a way of anonymizing users of a network preventing discrimination, analogous to cryptocurrency?

Confidentiality is not enough to claim Security. You also need Availability.

The point is if users are truly anonymous, you can't be selectively available as you can't discriminate. It's either entirely available or unavailable.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#429

Post by karmakaze »

PeterisP wrote: post #396
karmakaze wrote: post #207

So it seems that each group of nations needs/wants physical networks because it's not enough to use encrypted communication on others'. How many is enough, 3, 4, more? Is this solvable with a single network? e.g. Is there a way of anonymizing users of a network preventing discrimination, analogous to cryptocurrency?

You might anonymize users, but for this tech you can't anonymize location, so blocking communications for certain locations is possible and governments really, really want to ensure that they have a system where nobody else can deny them ability to talk to a certain place.

Can satellites know precise location or only timings to get a ring of uncertainty? Also transmissions could be delayed/weakened to simulate being farther away. I don't know much anything about satellite communications which is why I was hoping someone who did could chime in.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#430

Post by PeterisP »

karmakaze wrote: post #429
PeterisP wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might anonymize users, but for this tech you can't anonymize location, so blocking communications for certain locations is possible and governments really, really want to ensure that they have a system where nobody else can deny them ability to talk to a certain place.

Can satellites know precise location or only timings to get a ring of uncertainty? Also transmissions could be delayed/weakened to simulate being farther away. I don't know much anything about satellite communications which is why I was hoping someone who did could chime in.

Depends on the satellites (for GEO ones it's very different), but for the particular case of Starlink, there are two aspects - first, as satellites are relatively low, each satellite can only possibly "see" a ~1000km radius so disconnecting certain large regions is trivial by having the satellite not work when it's above that area; but the main issue is that an important component to ensure their bandwidth is 'beamforming', focusing the antennas to cells which IIRC are something like 50km in size, so a Starlink satellite can be physically reachable for one city and not in the neighboring one, without the ground-based receiver being able to do anything about it.
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