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U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

#421

Post by xyzelement »

ipaddr wrote: post #218
xyzelement wrote: post #180

Non competes are often necessary in the most interesting jobs. A few years ago I took a job at a hedge fund with a 2 year noncompete. I took a calculated risk doing so. In the 2 years I worked in the fund, I learned a tremendous amount thanks to being exposed to the "secret sauce" which would have been really damaging for me to take to a competitor. After I left the fund, I took the 2 year non-compete (ie: don't work…

After you took the FAANG job did you still receive money for the non-compete?

The way it worked (in my case at least) is that as part of my signing on with the fund, I consented to their ability to block my employment with anyone for 2 years post departure (technically, they could have blocked the FAANG job but there'd be no reason to - and similarly they could have approved a job in finance if it was sufficiently removed from what I was doing.)

There was no "money for the non-compete" involved, other than perhaps the premium baked into my compensation to begin with to make the deal attractive.

Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

#422

Post by mindvirus »

asdff wrote: post #374
ErikVandeWater wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highly motivated/skilled people will probably do valuable things with their time off that is not measured well by GDP.

Sure, but your next employer isn't going to care that you took up fly fishing, they will just see a gap in your resume and ding you for that.

Plenty of people just put "non compete" for that span of time, especially in the hedge fund world where these are common (and compensated).

Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

#423

Post by xyzelement »

greatpostman wrote: post #337
xyzelement wrote: post #180

Non competes are often necessary in the most interesting jobs. A few years ago I took a job at a hedge fund with a 2 year noncompete. I took a calculated risk doing so. In the 2 years I worked in the fund, I learned a tremendous amount thanks to being exposed to the "secret sauce" which would have been really damaging for me to take to a competitor. After I left the fund, I took the 2 year non-compete (ie: don't work…

Markets would be better and more efficient with that information public. Also, no need for a few people to rack up billions by holding secrets Think about sota deep learning models. Much better that everyone knows about hot chat gpt works.

Sure, and when you invest millions into developing the financial models (or GPT-like models) - you are welcome to release them into the public domain if you wish.

However you don't get to dictate what the people who have actually invested the resources get to do with them, including what conditions they attach to who can be exposed to it (a la the non-compete). As an adult, I retain the option to not take the job with the non-compete.

Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

#424

Post by cwkoss »

ecshafer wrote: post #21

Non-Competes being legal is only acceptable I think if the worker will continued being paid for the period of the non-compete. I can see reasons that non-competes exist, but those reasons don't really make sense in a world where patents and trademarks also exist. The fact that they are essentially illegal in California, and California's economy works shows that they are unnecessary and also don't hinder technological…

Pay shouldn't just continue, it should increase exponentially at a rate that outpaces inflation by enough to disincentivize maintaining it. Make it compound monthly at 200% APR.

Might be worth 3 years of pay to keep someone silent and idle for 2 years in some exceptional cases, but 7 years for 3 years would be exceedingly rare and 15 for 4 would be unheard of.

I'd be happy to sink all my time in my hobbies for 200% APR exponentially growing pay as long as anyone would like.

Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

#425

Post by tejohnso »

steelframe wrote: post #332

When I was interviewing last year, I cut off an interview loop with a company primarily because I don't reside in California and their NDA was, "Anything you say, anything we say, forever." Since I was also interviewing with one of their direct competitors that I really preferred, I didn't want to put myself anywhere near a legal situation where they might try to mess things up for my career. They freaked out when I…

Wouldn't they be making their NDA useless by having such a broad scope applied? I thought your contract had to be somewhat sensible for it to stand up in court.

Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

#426

Post by devmunchies »

notch656c wrote: post #51
ecshafer wrote: post #21

Non-Competes being legal is only acceptable I think if the worker will continued being paid for the period of the non-compete. I can see reasons that non-competes exist, but those reasons don't really make sense in a world where patents and trademarks also exist. The fact that they are essentially illegal in California, and California's economy works shows that they are unnecessary and also don't hinder technological…

Should be reciprocal if it exists. I.e. if the employee leaves, the company would be barred from hiring anyone else for any remotely similar tasks. Make them taste their own medicine and decide if it's worth it.

It IS reciprocal. You're welcome to present that "non-comparable hire" contract to the company before accepting your offer, but they no doubt will rescind your offer. You have the same right to reject the offer if you don't like the contract they present.

It's common for executive's lawyers to negotiate contracts with the firm before accepting an offer (including what the firm can or cannot do to the executive without penalties). I wish it were more normalized for ICs.

Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

#428

Post by jonny_eh »

steelframe wrote: post #332

When I was interviewing last year, I cut off an interview loop with a company primarily because I don't reside in California and their NDA was, "Anything you say, anything we say, forever." Since I was also interviewing with one of their direct competitors that I really preferred, I didn't want to put myself anywhere near a legal situation where they might try to mess things up for my career. They freaked out when I…

Good for you, but the article is about non-competes, not NDAs.

Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

#429

Post by Wowfunhappy »

b112 wrote: post #407
humanistbot wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that makes me so angry is how lightly so many people treat these legally binding contracts. I showed up to a meetup at some tech company's offices. After putting in my name, I was shown a contract on a small tablet and was expected to click next and sign with my finger. I have normal vision and couldn't read it without putting it right in front of my eyeball. I don't sign anything without reading. I asked i…

Their response? "Oh, that's just all standard legal stuff, don't worry about it." I'm a Canuck, so centuries of legal, common law separation here... But if someone misrepresents what a contract is, and even more so applies pressure to sign, it's meaningless. My understanding is that this goes back to "make your mark" and lower levels of literacy, and in modern times, that legalese is gibberish to many, thus misrepres…

Shouldn't this invalidate basically every software EULA/TOS?

Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts

#430

Post by dragonwriter »

steelframe wrote: post #332

When I was interviewing last year, I cut off an interview loop with a company primarily because I don't reside in California and their NDA was, "Anything you say, anything we say, forever." Since I was also interviewing with one of their direct competitors that I really preferred, I didn't want to put myself anywhere near a legal situation where they might try to mess things up for my career. They freaked out when I…

Note that while an unqualified “eveything ever” employment NDA is expressly illegal in California [0], California is not as hostile to NDAs and non-disparagement agreements as it is to post-employment noncompetes.

[0] https://www.employmentlawwatch.com/2021/10/articles/employme...

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