‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#421

Post by partiallypro » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 10:02 PM UTC

Rebelgecko wrote: post #300

partiallypro wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new idea (mostly in the West) that being obese is/can be a healthy lifestyle is absolutely maddening. People being obese (and I don't mean a few pounds overweight) raises everyone's healthcare cost, because it is incredibly unhealthy and obese people tend to have more complications which requires more treatment, workers and subsidizing. It's not just an individual problem, it's a societal problem. There's a new "…

Has the health care cost been studied? I wouldn't be surprised if morbidly obese people are cheaper in the long run due to a reduced lifespan (kinda like how smokers can be cheaper than nonsmokers-they may cost more to ensure before retirement age, but it more than evens out when you looked at reduced years after that point)

Yes, it has been studied countless times.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33470881/

"Adults with obesity in the United States compared with those with normal weight experienced higher annual medical care costs by $2,505 or 100%, with costs increasing significantly with class of obesity, from 68.4% for class 1 to 233.6% for class 3. The effects of obesity raised costs in every category of care: inpatient, outpatient, and prescription drugs. Increases in medical expenditures due to obesity were higher for adults covered by public health insurance programs ($2,868) than for those having private health insurance ($2,058)."

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#422

Post by tootie » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 10:03 PM UTC

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #329

tootie wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's awfully harsh. For one, the person making that statement is not the developer of the treatment, she's a psychologist expressing concern about the possible downsides. Namely that the drug is expensive, doesn't work on everyone and hasn't been proven to show long-term beneficial outcomes yet (ie lower morbidity). I'm guessing it's also got a high potential for abuse from people with dysphoria. Nobody is saying w…

> the person making that statement is not the developer of the treatment and neither is she a doctor or biological scientist. Rather, she's trying to get in on a lucrative field which she has no expertise in.

Again, needlessly harsh. She is psychologist with expertise in body image and was likely asked by the reporter for an opinion. Idk why you think she's trying to cash in on anything. It's incredibly cynical.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#423

Post by wolverine876 » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 10:03 PM UTC

smooth_remmy wrote: post #275

Petro Dobromylskyj is one of the foremost experts of fat metabolism. He has a blog called Hyperlipid where he's been blogging about fat metabolism and interpreting research for close to 10 years. He thinks the GLP-1 inhibitor drugs will be a disaster in the long term because they 1) cause weight loss but also 2) cause the body to create lots of new adipocyte (fat cells). Increasing the number of adipocytes is very un…

> one of the foremost experts of fat metabolism

Is it correct that the source is a veterinary anaesthesiolgist?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34252195

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#424

Post by bioemerl » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 10:03 PM UTC

8note wrote: post #260

bioemerl wrote: post #182

> In the past, scientists and the public often thought that those with obesity simply lacked the willpower to lose weight. But evidence is growing that most people’s bodies have a natural size that can be hard to change. In the context where we have gone from obesity rates of 13 percent to 40, to suggest that people have a natural weight and that's the cause of this seems absurd to me.

That two people eating the same thing in the same amounts will retain different amounts as weight is something you can experiment on, without assigning a cause.

I think we need to really stress here just how bad our situation is. We have an obesity rate of 40 plus percent.

Peoples weight just cannot be said to be a "natural number" in this environment. Something is causing this and your average person is obese because of it, not because of their "natural weight"

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#425

Post by Gatsky » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 10:04 PM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #304

Gatsky wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are randomised controlled trials of diets (without caloric restriction). They show that some diets are better than others for real clinical endpoints, eg mediterranean vs low fat diet for secondary prevention of cardiac events [1]. The effect size in that example is not small, it is large, despite most participants already being on a statin. This data shows that diets are biologically active and significantly i…

You haven't controlled for body weight changes though. Nobody doubts that diets (if adhered to) can reduce weight. So if biomarkers improve relative to an alternative diet, the question is it because A) the Med diet is more effective at weight loss, or B) the Med diet has benefits outside weight loss. The research you linked is interesting, but confounded by weight loss. Research that has directly tried to control fo…

Incorrect. They controlled for changes in weight, it is not confounded by weight loss. RCT >> cross sectional analyses.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#426

Post by ceejayoz » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 10:04 PM UTC

Izkata wrote: post #38

ceejayoz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How much of it was actually the lifestyle changes? That's why the placebo group in the trial also gets the same lifestyle changes. > This apparently works by suppressing appetite, but doesn't cocaine do the same thing? Sure. If they were otherwise identical, that'd be a good point, but they're not. > Constant needle marks from weekly injections might result in more social complications than anything else... My daug…

> You don't get needle marks from these sorts of small dosage subcutaneous injection. Ah, my only experience is with things like vaccines and drawing blood; those marks last around a week on me.

Yeah, it's very different; vaccinations are generally much deeper (into muscle), and drawing blood punctures a vein causing leakage into the surrounding tissue.

Daily injections can leave a little under-the-skin scarring (feels a little like cellulite) so you have to vary the site a bit, but for most folks that's the worst of it. Well worth it for these sorts of results.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#427

Post by anigbrowl » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 10:04 PM UTC

sfusato wrote: post #79

> I believe that everyone, even the skinny folks, should be on GLP1 drugs for the longevity effects. Are you for real? Serious question.

I had the same reaction. I minimize oxidative stress on my body by being selective about what I eat: having a bit less of some delicious things and eating a bit more of some boring foods that I know are good for me.

Also, fuck 'longevity.' The population of the world has doubled during my lifetime and this is a Bad Thing which is wiping out vast numbers of other species. Call me misanthropic if you like but humans are overrated and the maximization of our species' footprint is not a desirable outcome. I expect to live for a shorter time than my parents have (partly due to my own choices, partly environmental factors) and while that's disappointing in some ways I've been fortunate enough to enjoy reasonably good health and resultant quality of life. My idea of biological success is no living to the greatest age possible but having sufficient fitness and autonomy to be physically and mentally active while I'm alive. I have enough experience of injury and near-death situations to know that I'm OK with dying, and have no intention of begging to escape the inevitable.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#428

Post by wolverine876 » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 10:04 PM UTC

Scalene2 wrote: post #382

rootusrootus wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh man, the first result for him on Google is a link to a YouTube video. That makes my BS meter instantly peg.

What kind of crap do you watch on YouTube that manages to taint the entire platform?

There's a lot of crap on YouTube; that taints things.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#429

Post by pessimizer » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 10:05 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #403

paulpauper wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The low success rates of diets suggest very hard to establish new habits

Many things are hard, but that does not mean they should not be done.

If there are easy alternatives with the same outcomes, hard things absolutely should not be done (unless you're practicing for an emergency situation where the easy thing is not available.)

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#430

Post by jumpman500 » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 10:06 PM UTC

fswd wrote: post #379

It appears you can do the same thing with 3g of cinnamon https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19158209/ Conclusions: Ingestion of 3 g cinnamon reduced postprandial serum insulin and increased GLP-1 concentrations without significantly affecting blood glucose, GIP, the ghrelin concentration, satiety, or GER in healthy subjects.

Isn’t that a dangerous amount?