" and law enforcement seized millions of dollars in assets, including homes, bank accounts, cash, and luxury vehicles." - civil asset forfeiture
Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring
421–430 of 487 posts
Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring
#422Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They should also consider targeting and auditing shops that buy used car parts. Making it extremely difficult to fence these things will be practical and useful because they aren't sold and reused as is California just passed a law to this end, which is pretty straightforward and effectively turns the grey market into a black market. A black market will still exist, but it will be a lot harder for legitimate junkya…
> It basically mandates KYC (Know Your Customer) procedures for companies that buy or sell catalytic converters, and it makes buying or selling a catalytic converter without documentation that it was obtained legally a crime. This is worse than the original problem. When did we become so comfortable with the government mandating presentation of papers and tracking of private transactions? Effective, privacy-preservin…
>...This is worse than the original problem. When did we become so comfortable with the government mandating presentation of papers and tracking of private transactions?
The U.S. has always been like this, especially since taking down the mob in the 70's and the War On Drugs in the 80's. Out of all the laws, most people aren't going to be hemmed up with catalytic converter KYC compared to things such as the War On Drugs and the watering down of the 4th amendment.
Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring
#423Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, if you mean pseudoephedrine, that's to stop the production of meth.
Just as a note, this didn't work at all. They came up with a better chemistry and now there's more meth than there was before. Breaking Bad dramatized this aspect of it (though their chemistry wasn't correct on purpose).
Mexican superlabs put an end to the shake-and-bake method of making meth. And the biggest problem with shake-and-bake meth was the externalities of people making it at home, including bottles that would burst with caustic chemicals, and properties being condemned from the phosphorous in leaching into the walls.
Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring
#424Good, an EE at our office had a new truck 3 days before thieves cut off part of the exhaust system. =/
Around here the just went into the dealership and cut them off the new cars in the lot. Then brazenly did it with another dealership a few days later!
Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring
#425Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but we definitely have intruded on Joe's freedom to buy and sell cats No we haven't. Joe is free to resell converters, provided he proves he obtained them legally, which is trivial _if_ you obtained them legally.
> Joe is free to resell converters, provided ... ... an increased burden over private sales of other goods (and over existing standards for sales of catalytic converters), which quite literally constitutes an "intrusion."
There is quite literally a difference between selling a cat to your friend and selling it to a business that makes money liquidating cats (this sentence is actually humorous if you dont know what cat is short for...).
I have no interest in stopping Joe from selling to Bob, or going on craigslist and selling his wares if he, for some reason, has figured out a way to manufacturer with rare earth metals in his garage. Though I think this is a bit of a stretch of the normal argument. First, because catalytic converters are exceedingly hard to create. Second, because the profit is not in arbitrage but rather theft. Making a catalytic converter is very expensive. There are only a dozen or so companies with the infrastructure to make them at a scale that is profitable. Hence, if we could magically wish away cat theft it would not be remotely profitable to do some kind of rare earth arbitrage by the books. So, ipso facto, it is a good place to enforce at the very least a minimum amount of KYC with associated punishments when third party sales to businesses who do this sort of thing is involved.
I understand the arguments from the other side are the same arguments made for the KYC surrounding the $10,000 withdrawal limit to "stop drug money". I disagree with that kind of KYC. When in 99% cases they are ill gotten gains there must be something done because the alternative is foisting the cost ($300-$XXXX dollars) onto the innocent and throwing your hands up. Worse yet, it's not a one time cost and these criminals, undeterred, will simply return to steal the new one as well. This is no way to treat law abiding citizens.
Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring
#426Earlier quoted context omitted.
I doubt it. Catalytic converters are stolen because they're valuable and easy to make off with . Car batteries are frickin giant, and if you try and take only a piece you get a giant fire instead of a valuable source of rare metals. They don't seem like a great thing to steal.
A new incentive to steal cars then. Steal car, harvest battery cells worth $20k+, ditch the rest of the car. No silly VIN numbers, etc. Just anonymous 18650 cells (or whatever they use now).
Wait till the stories come out about criminals discovery what an extremely low impedance source of 700V does to your body.
Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring
#427Earlier quoted context omitted.
CA added new machines to testing that report every test to try to slow this down but every mechanic knows where to find the old machines that can run tests without reporting. They just want to get you on the road and they’re damn good about it (and to be fair much of what they do to pass actually fixes real issues - i went from being a gross polluter to passing when the mechanic replaced the spark plug wire that was…
>CA added new machines to testing that report every test to try to slow this down but every mechanic knows where to find the old machines that can run tests without reporting. >They just want to get you on the road and they’re damn good about it Don't worry, the east coast has a solution for this harmonious alignment of business and customer incentives: 'safety' inspections I took the training back when I lived in MA…
Something deeply ironic about emissions inspections in my state: my diesel VW is exempt from them. Some shops might do a cursory look to be sure you haven't deleted the particulate filter or the catalytic converter, but, really, most just make sure there is a pipe running from the exhaust manifold to the rear of the vehicle.
Last summer, I accompanied my son when he went across the state line to purchase a truck from a private seller. Said state has no inspection requirements. One of the seller's other trucks was a diesel conversion, and the exhaust was just routed up through the bonnet. Definitely no cat on that vehicle!
Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring
#428Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not like you can just crack it open and the expensive metal falls out though. It’s an industrial process.
Ummm, no that’s almost exactly how it works actually. https://youtu.be/F8pd_p8gppE
Sort of. The bulk of that material you see is just a ceramic substrate. There's only a few grams of valuable metals in each converter.
Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring
#429Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ever been to a pawn shop? Everything in a legit operation runs through this process. >> The choice is between law enforcement actually doing their job, or invasive and ineffectual laws like this. I'm on guard for overreah all the time, but I'm OK with showing ID to buy alcohol, drive a car, fly on a plane, sell items that should rarely be done in bulk outside of rare conditions, like a bunch of catalytic converters.
Regarding ID for flying... I took a flight today. I had to show my ID once at the start of the security line where they did NOT check my boarding pass. Then at the gate they only wanted to see my boarding pass and not my ID. So basically nobody actually cares about ID when flying. It would have been trivial to buy the ticket in a false name or "borrow" someone else's name without asking. To be clear, this failing is…
This new procedure and equipment is partially rolled out at TSA checkpoints across the US, has been for a couple of years now. The agent's computer shows the flight information. No reason to have an extra step to scan a boarding pass since the computer pulls it all up anyways.
To get through TSA as a member of the general public, you have to have a ticket (or a non-traveler gate pass) in your real name (matching your ID, soon to be real ID requirement) for a flight leaving in the next N hours. International flights check your passport at the boarding gate. For domestic, sure, you could swap to another boarding pass purchased under a different name, but what's the threat model there? You've already been screened.
Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring
#430Earlier quoted context omitted.
Property is not worth a life. Not even the life of the person damaging it. Property can be replaced, a life can not. Besides, there’s way too much margin for error in vigilante justice. That’s why we have trials, imperfect as even they may be. They’re certainly better than empowering everyone to be judge, jury, and executioner because they thought you might be committing a property crime.
It depends on the property. I have medication I need to live. If I don’t take it regularly daily, a clock starts ticking. When the time is up, I die. When I travel I treat my bags like my life. I recent had nasty run in with an airline that wanted me to check my bags. I refused to get on the plane. When I took the next flight, my checked baggage didn’t make the connection. I might have survived if I got to the ER fas…
The exception that proves the rule.