Kanye West is buying Parler • Hacker News Board

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#421

Post by seanw444 » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:01 PM UTC

VikingCoder wrote: post #409

seanw444 wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life is full of hurt. That's a reality people can't come to terms with. "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good."

Communication that can be censored is good. "true free speech" is the perfection you're striving for. "Life is full of hurt." Are you an arms dealer? Why not? It's profitable, and sure, people get hurt, but what's the problem with that?

Being able to stop bad at the expense of good is the perfection you're striving for.

There are two different priorities here we will simply never agree on. Both harm someone.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#422

Post by triceratops » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:01 PM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #355

themitigating wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this but then you don't have free speech right? I assume you are referring to something like defamation but controlled by the state

No, I refer to things like attaching counter opinions to opinions of people with high visibility for example. So if the concern is the power of the famous, never display their tweets alone, display it with a few other tweets. Maybe do issue follow ups, so if someone says something and later it is contested prioritise the contestants until they get similar reach. For example, if a politician says he never met with som…

> I refer to things like attaching counter opinions to opinions of people with high visibility for example

That's what fact-checking is. It's widely heckled.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#423

Post by ALittleLight » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:01 PM UTC

AlwaysRock wrote: post #213

tptacek wrote: post #117

This is really a story about a celebrity's mental illness and public breakdown. If you haven't been following the news, West has spent the week saying increasingly unhinged things, not just about politics but about Pete Davidson, his wife, and (if I'm remembering right) his kids and the fake actor children that have been installed in his former home to corrupt them. He was interviewed for a show on Fox and a big chun…

It's sad because to become successful Kanye had to ignore hundreds/thousands of important people telling him he wasnt good enough and he would never make it as a rapper. Then he became, arguably, the most popular rapper/hip hop artist of all time. Now image you've done what seems impossible despite countless people telling you it wont work out. You are in the top 1% of fame. Now someone tells you your other ideas are…

From this perspective - my intuition is that the likelihood a Kanye West led Parler will be successful is substantially greater than that a rap career will be successful. In some sense West is moving on to more plausible investments as he gets older.

West has had success as an entertainer and as a businessman - I believe he has a successful shoe company. He's famous. If he thinks he can take on Parler, that seems like a crazy challenge but one he is well equipped to take on. I would certainly believe in myself - even if I thought it was low probability I'd feel certain that it was possible.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#424

Post by iaml » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:02 PM UTC

bnjms wrote: post #353

dk775 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listen to his interviews yourself. Any medium, including podcasts, are packaging a narrative for you to hear. For better or worse. Personally and I’m black I listened to his latest interview and his points are pretty strong, it becomes obvious how he is being painted in a false light after hearing the interviews for yourself then hearing other people use clips to say he’s mentally ill and crazy.

Could you suggest a recent interview as an example? I’d like to judge myself. I’m of the opinion he’s both someone with good intentions with good points but who makes those points sideways. But also that he’s mentally I’ll so he’s losing the ability to communicate clearly. I also think Candace Owens is an untrustworthy person with only self serving intentions.

Not the person you asked, but here’s an interview that released yesterday.

https://youtu.be/-ZmbP5vIbyk

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#425

Post by c3534l » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:02 PM UTC

AlwaysRock wrote: post #213

tptacek wrote: post #117

This is really a story about a celebrity's mental illness and public breakdown. If you haven't been following the news, West has spent the week saying increasingly unhinged things, not just about politics but about Pete Davidson, his wife, and (if I'm remembering right) his kids and the fake actor children that have been installed in his former home to corrupt them. He was interviewed for a show on Fox and a big chun…

It's sad because to become successful Kanye had to ignore hundreds/thousands of important people telling him he wasnt good enough and he would never make it as a rapper. Then he became, arguably, the most popular rapper/hip hop artist of all time. Now image you've done what seems impossible despite countless people telling you it wont work out. You are in the top 1% of fame. Now someone tells you your other ideas are…

I don't know much about Kanye, but are reports of people telling him he didn'h have talent to be a rapper genuine, or just something he tells people? Because it sounds like the sort of thing people make up for their own personal narrative. It reminds me of when people say things like "the doctor told me I only had a year to live" - which is something no doctor would actually say because its a massive legal liability, but it fits our personal narrative. Who were these people Kanye had to overcome?

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#426

Post by drak0n1c » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:02 PM UTC

danuker wrote: post #36

impowski wrote: post #19

I mean you can say “men are trash”, “white people are trash” and so on, but at the same time you are not allowed to say anything against jewish people or other people? Isn’t it kinda hypocritical? Maybe we should not allow toxic behavior at all and have a civil discourse about someone is feeling towards some group of people to allow him to change his mind? Personal attacks and hatred will not do any good this will on…

On one hand, there should ideally be no discrimination. So, hate speech directed even at white males should be disallowed. On the other hand, society resolved through politics (such as Affirmative Action) that the compound interest and lasting synergistic effects of historical discrimination should be compensated for somewhat. The only way to do that is through more discrimination (i.e. relatively penalizing the leas…

Usually there is no deeper reason than the fact that those private companies are staffed at the administrative and policy level by college-educated yuppies living in San Francisco and New York City, and that demographic has become increasingly ideological in the last few years and bought into the idea that progressive toxicity is either a socially good form of tough love/bullying/peer pressure or at least that restricting it disproportionately damages vulnerable groups, etc while what is labeled regressive toxicity is assumed to be heinous, destroying society, and deserving of quick permanent bans.

Companies are not perfectly rational calculators that always know best how to make money. They are made up of people, and people are flawed. People can be deluded into thinking that their bias toward pet issues is profit-neutral or even profit-positive. It happens in the non-politicized corporate sphere all the time - boondoggles is the term.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#427

Post by MisterBastahrd » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:02 PM UTC

lghh wrote: post #312

bambax wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article is from 2011, but today on Spotify Eminem still has more monthly listeners than Kanye West (53M vs 51M). Eminem also has several songs that have over a billion streams (one with >1.5b), while Kanye has just one and it's at exactly 1b. So yes, Eminem is still well ahead.

This discounts Kanye's production work as well and might discount many of his collaborations, but I expect Eminem to still have more listens on spotify. However, in terms of influence on hip hop and pop music as a whole, I think Kanye is above Eminem and it's probably not close. Unfortunately, that's a lot harder to measure.

If we're talking overall influence, it's Dr. Dre and then everyone else can get far back in line.

Kanye likes to claim that his music wasn't about gangster rap and that's why he was sidelined for... a couple years... meanwhile, Dre not only made NWA and Snoop Dogg but managed to convince the entire rap world that a poor white kid with drug problems and abuse issues was the next huge thing by doing things that nobody had ever thought to do before.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#428

Post by triceratops » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:02 PM UTC

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #153

shadowgovt wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only somewhat free place I've seen is 4Chan but it contains so much toxicity, that's its barely bearable. Correlation doesn't imply causation, but it does wiggle its eyebrows meaningfully in causation's direction.

It tells me there's places of free speech on the internet but what is really wanted here is forced listening. Free speech on small fringe sites somehow doesn't count because it's not forced on people that don't want to see it. It's pretty clearly not a free speech issue at this point.

You've hit the nail on the head. All these "free speech absolutists" actually want "gratis reach" not "free speech".

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#429

Post by selimthegrim » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:02 PM UTC

NickC25 wrote: post #301

tptacek wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seemed pretty fair at the time, like I remember being confused by why it caused such a media furor. You could disagree, of course, but you could also see given the circumstances why someone would say it.

I'd definitely say it was fair at the time as that was around Hurricane Katrina and the vast majority of the most affected people at the time were low-income black people. IIRC some parts of the 9th Ward are still yet to recover from Katrina.....and that was 17 years ago.

Typing this from the ninth ward across from the vacant site of a former sausage factory I am inclined to agree

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#430

Post by BrianOnHN » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:03 PM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #355

themitigating wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this but then you don't have free speech right? I assume you are referring to something like defamation but controlled by the state

No, I refer to things like attaching counter opinions to opinions of people with high visibility for example. So if the concern is the power of the famous, never display their tweets alone, display it with a few other tweets. Maybe do issue follow ups, so if someone says something and later it is contested prioritise the contestants until they get similar reach. For example, if a politician says he never met with som…

I like this notion.

However, some sort of "fair & balanced" law would have to enforce this.

Edit: and to respond to sibling comment about fact-checking being heckled...

The mechanism here would have to somehow force a similar amount of views. For example, if a lie gets 1MM views, then the proof of the lie should have to gain 1MM views before the original author can gain leverage of the algorithm again.

Of course the new system will eventually be abused, however, it's a step in the right direction. And when that eventually fails to be recognizable, another set of checks and balances must be layered on top.