$3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse • Hacker News Board

Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#421

Post by BurningFrog » Tue, May 17, 2022, 12:37 AM UTC

snovv_crash wrote: post #201

eric_cc wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LUNA minted trillions of brand new tokens within the span of a day or so rendering the token worthless. This is due to the way LUNA was tied to the algorithmic stablecoin UST. It was a true ponzi. BTC's max supply is capped and the release schedule of new coins is fixed and predictable. There is no possible way that trillions of new bitcoins could suddenly be created.

Luna crashed because people lost trust in it. The only reason people have trust in BTC is because other people have trust in it. If that ever changed, there is no actual use for a BTC, and they are thus intrinsically worthless. Fiat currency has the backing of a government. The government demands certain payments of this currency in order to own land, and also for some extra rights like mineral extraction, fishing li…

There are plenty of fiat currencies, backed by stable governments, that have become completely worthless. The Zimbabwean Dollar is the most famous one this century. There are plenty others.

This fully disproves your argument, as far as I can see.

Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#422

Post by tw600040 » Tue, May 17, 2022, 12:39 AM UTC

eric_cc wrote: post #90

snovv_crash wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me, what assets exactly are backing BTC which stop it from crashing just like Luna?

LUNA minted trillions of brand new tokens within the span of a day or so rendering the token worthless. This is due to the way LUNA was tied to the algorithmic stablecoin UST. It was a true ponzi. BTC's max supply is capped and the release schedule of new coins is fixed and predictable. There is no possible way that trillions of new bitcoins could suddenly be created.

//BTC's max supply is capped and the release schedule of new coins is fixed and predictable

That doesn't mean it's not a Ponzi. One can run Ponzis with a cap and fixed/predictable supply increases..

Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#423

Post by SkipperCat » Tue, May 17, 2022, 12:59 AM UTC

joosters wrote: post #4

"Sold" It's hard to show that they really sold these coins. Certainly, the LFG transferred the coins to some different exchanges. But did they truly sell them? If I was running a dodgy ponzi scheme and saw it collapsing catastrophically, I don't think I'd be throwing good money after bad trying to futilely patch it up. Much better to stash the remaining assets away somewhere and personally cash out later on. Also, “I…

Let me fix that sentence for all the HODLers. “In a sense, the market is going to take that as kind of bullshit”.

I’m sorry all crypto believers. There’s just too much chaos in crypto world for this to be anything more than a gold rush.

Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#424

Post by low_tech_love » Tue, May 17, 2022, 1:10 AM UTC

vmception wrote: post #419

low_tech_love wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that, when all is said and done, we’re supposed to trust them that it’s alright. But wasn’t that supposed to be the exact problem that blockchains were supposed to fix, remove trust from the equation? Why is it that people are so willing to trust them all of a sudden? It is contradictory and seems to me like pure tribalism. In the lack of evidence either way, I think we should assume the worst, not the b…

The blockchain removes the need for trust when the blockchain is involved completely and without obfuscation The need for trust doesnt stay removed magically because someone in the blockchain space was involved

Which is exactly what happened and we seem to agree. Thanks!

Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#425

Post by squidbeak » Tue, May 17, 2022, 1:12 AM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #399

snovv_crash wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luna crashed because people lost trust in it. The only reason people have trust in BTC is because other people have trust in it. If that ever changed, there is no actual use for a BTC, and they are thus intrinsically worthless. Fiat currency has the backing of a government. The government demands certain payments of this currency in order to own land, and also for some extra rights like mineral extraction, fishing li…

Fiat currency does not actually have the backing of a government. What could the UK do when the pound peg broke? Nothing but lose enormous amounts of money trying to hold it.

It could leave the Exchange Rate Mechanism which created the conditions for the run. And it did. Fiat currency always has the backing of a government, as 'fiat' suggests.

Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#426

Post by SkipperCat » Tue, May 17, 2022, 1:12 AM UTC

eric_cc wrote: post #69

joosters wrote: post #4

"Sold" It's hard to show that they really sold these coins. Certainly, the LFG transferred the coins to some different exchanges. But did they truly sell them? If I was running a dodgy ponzi scheme and saw it collapsing catastrophically, I don't think I'd be throwing good money after bad trying to futilely patch it up. Much better to stash the remaining assets away somewhere and personally cash out later on. Also, “I…

> 'this is good for bitcoin' A total ponzi scam coin crashed. This IS good for Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not Luna nor is it one of the thousands of other garbage scam coins. The faster those coins are proven scams the better. Too many people falsely equate "Bitcoin === Crypto".. or "a fan of bitcoin is a fan of all crypto". So I'd bounce this back to you: How is Luna's Ponzi crash NOT good for bitcoin?

is the demise of Luna a sign that Bitcoin is a survivor or is Bitcoin just the last part of the Titanic still sticking out of the water. Time will tell but I am not bullish on cryptocurrency.

Anything can be a store of wealth. NFTs even had their day in the sun but it's hard to stay valuable unless you are providing actual value.

So I ask, where' the value in Bitcoin. It used to be a great way to launder money, not so much anymore. It was supposed to democratize finance and allow the individual to not get screwed over by the big banks, but with the amount of rug pulls in crypto, I feel safer at Wells Fargo (and I really hate Wells Fargo).

And don't get me started on DeFi. I'd be horrified by it if I just saw one Flash Loan attack but there's so many that I'd never trust my $$$ anywhere near that.

Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#427

Post by SwimSwimHungry » Tue, May 17, 2022, 1:14 AM UTC

fullstop wrote: post #307

paulpauper wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it dropped 20% over the past week and keeps falling now.

Netflix has dropped 45% over the last month, Amazon 27%, TSLA 27%, Disney 17%, BTCUSD 26%. I'm definitely not sold on Bitcoin, but it tracks along with tech stocks for some reason.

Which certainly reinforces the notion that Bitcoin is not a good "hedge" that is often claimed by bitcoin maxis.

Digital gold my butt.

Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#428

Post by [deleted] » Tue, May 17, 2022, 1:15 AM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #404

MadcapJake wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laymen here: How can they introduce numberless BTC? I thought that was the crux of what makes this different from fiat: you can only transact from one address to another, no institution in between.

I've written more detailed posts here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31375366 Accounting tricks, basically. They say you have BTC in your account when in fact your deposit is tied up in investments, loans.

[deleted]

Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#429

Post by lbwtaylor » Tue, May 17, 2022, 1:28 AM UTC

vmception wrote: post #300

dstroot wrote: post #296

Does anyone have insight to what legal exposure (if any) creator Do Kwon has? In an regulated market does he just walk away?

in a regulated market all you would simply have are some codified fiduciary duties and standardized disclosures Terra Luna and TerraUSD's algorithmic operations were all disclosed publicly and scrutinized in the open sphere Do Kwon stated publicly why he was buying the bitcoin - to repurchase Terra Luna and TerraUSD because its shitty broken product that might need to be rebought to temporarily help restore its peg -…

I disagree with part of the thrust of this argument. One of the most hidden things in crypto (despite the transparency of the chain), is who owns, controls, buys and sells coins, in particular related parties to the founders. The disclosure in the regulated markets of insider trades and conflicts of interest is much more robust than in crypto. Yes you can see transactions and wallets, but most of the knowledge is speculations and assumptions, rather than disclosure that can be litigated over. Harder for it to be up to the consumer when founders chose what to disclose, and what to obfuscate.

I don't disagree that there are ETNs that work generally as you describe.

Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#430

Post by neltnerb » Tue, May 17, 2022, 1:29 AM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #399

snovv_crash wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luna crashed because people lost trust in it. The only reason people have trust in BTC is because other people have trust in it. If that ever changed, there is no actual use for a BTC, and they are thus intrinsically worthless. Fiat currency has the backing of a government. The government demands certain payments of this currency in order to own land, and also for some extra rights like mineral extraction, fishing li…

Fiat currency does not actually have the backing of a government. What could the UK do when the pound peg broke? Nothing but lose enormous amounts of money trying to hold it.

What scenario involves the UK losing an enormous amount of money would be one where they are attempting to "hold a peg"?

I'm confused. Countries manipulate their currency supply in various ways in order to make their money cheaper or more expensive, I get that. But I thought the main goal was to keep exports or imports to a good balance to avoid wrecking a real economy. Like, actual people's lifestyles and jobs and well-being, beyond just the value of an investment instrument

I'm not sure I see the metaphor holding up here, isn't the issue that came up an arbitrage opportunity caused by a peg that in the real world doesn't really exist or which is easy for actual human beings to intervene in?

Are you describing what Russia did? Did they "lose money" with the actions they actually took? It seemed more about adding rules and changing contracts than by spending money on anything in particular, I'm not sure how one would calculate how much money they lost doing it. Or if that's a useful way to think about it really even, nations just have so many other priorities and their money policy is not at all algorithmic...