Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

macrumors.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

421–430 of 734 posts

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#421

Post by marricks »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #301

Some people are extremely sensitive to the issue of the remote work, like it is some kind of inalienable right, and any (perceived) threat to it makes them want to grab a pitchfork and proteat. I don't get it. Things are simple. The employer sets the terms, where you work and how the work is paid. The employee either accepts the terms or walks away. Sometimes the sides engage in negotiations, where the side with more…

> Why make so much drama out of it?

Well, lets see duckduckgo search the largest tech companies back to office dates...

> Google tells employees to return to offices in April

> Apple sets April 11 date for return to in-person work for corporate ...

> Microsoft Returning to the Office on Feb. 28 as Covid Cases Decline

I doubt they decided independently on a back to office date in the same ~1 month timeframe, remember these same folks had an anti poaching agreement and set limits on engineer salaries. They colluded to control engineers and they'll collude to force them back to the office if they feel it's best* for their industry.

Unless employees have a similar level of coordination and control, for example a cross industry union, they will continue to be pushed around. If people don't make a big deal of these moves the company can withstand the few hold outs quitting.

*I doubt best for "the industry" is best for the consumer. Best for them is probably most controllable pliable workforce.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#422

Post by supersync »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #398
kadoban wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A union's interests are probably not completely aligned with mine Sure, but the company's interests are almost completely opposed to yours in most ways. It's _possible_ for you to be worse off in a union, but rare.

> Sure, but the company's interests are almost completely opposed to yours in most ways I'm sad that you think this, and would urge you to analyze your situation to see if it's really true. My one piece of advice is that companies seek to minimize cost centers, but invest in profit centers. Get out of the former and in to the latter.

Cost centers: anything that improves your experience as an employee.

It’s smart to move out of it, but the fact that you have to in order to progress is a clear indicator why companies will perpetually undervalue talent - even in competitive markets.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#423

Post by WWLink »

Aeolun wrote: post #132
qbasic_forever wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We deserve to have input into how we work best and if that means walking away from companies run by egomaniacs that need to see butts in seats, then so be it. The logical conclusion of this line of thinking is to organize your coworkers. You have much more bargaining power about your work conditions as an organized union. The history of unionization stems primarily from workers demanding safe working environments.

You have much more bargaining power, yes. But you’ll also be bargaining as part of a group that includes Joe Useless, who sits in the next cubicle over and ostensibly fulfills the same role as you. The company may be happy to give you a 10% raise, but they’d rather lower JU’s salary by 10%, so they won’t budge on your demands for an increase, since it’d also apply to him.

> You have much more bargaining power, yes. But you’ll also be bargaining as part of a group that includes Joe Useless, who sits in the next cubicle over and ostensibly fulfills the same role as you.

What if you're the Joe Useless on your team and you don't know it? A lot of people here seem to think they're the 10X dude but what if they're the 0.1X dude lol. What if you're really the 10X dude but your manager thinks you're the 0.1X dude because they don't like you as a person?

Those systems have good and bad sides to them, but I do think the good outweighs the bad.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#424

Post by thrtythreeforty »

babl-yc wrote: post #377
otterley wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes years to design and ship new silicon. For all we know, the M1 was taped out just before COVID hit and people started working from home.

Yeah, the M1 mac is not a strong example. They began _shipping_ in Nov 2020, so I bet the design was finalized or close to it before the March shutdowns in the Bay Area began.

I strongly suspect M1 taped out before the pandemic started

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#425

Post by justsomehnguy »

donthellbanme wrote: post #351
lizknope wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had an office with a door and window for 12 years at 2 different companies. It was great. I left the door open 90% of the time but it was great to be able to close the door for privacy the other 10%. I changed to a much better job in 2019 regarding work and salary but everyone including the VP's are in cubicles. It is really annoying when everyone around you is on a different conference call and you have to block t…

I sometimes think that some Managers, and even primary founders, have such ungratifing gratifying social lives outside of work; They need the social bonding, and drama, that goes on in certain work settings Kinda like my last girlfriend. I honestly felt if she didn't have an office to go to, and couldn't boss around someone beneath her in the organization around, gossip, and socialize; she couldn't sleep well. Yea, i…

I had a comment in the same vein two weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31155366

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#426

Post by schemescape »

marricks wrote: post #421
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #301

Some people are extremely sensitive to the issue of the remote work, like it is some kind of inalienable right, and any (perceived) threat to it makes them want to grab a pitchfork and proteat. I don't get it. Things are simple. The employer sets the terms, where you work and how the work is paid. The employee either accepts the terms or walks away. Sometimes the sides engage in negotiations, where the side with more…

> Why make so much drama out of it? Well, lets see duckduckgo search the largest tech companies back to office dates... > Google tells employees to return to offices in April > Apple sets April 11 date for return to in-person work for corporate ... > Microsoft Returning to the Office on Feb. 28 as Covid Cases Decline I doubt they decided independently on a back to office date in the same ~1 month timeframe, remember…

For what it’s worth, Microsoft was not part of the anti-poaching scandal:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust...

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#427

Post by WWLink »

csande17 wrote: post #400
noisy_boy wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Say, for sake of argument, that I'm the World's Greatest Widget Engineer. Say, I am not. > so I can get stuff I want by negotiating individually with my employer I cannot, see above. Does that mean I don't deserve to have the bargaining power for the best deal for myself? > A union's interests are probably not completely aligned with mine—they're focused on protecting the majority of employees, who are probably not…

> Does that mean I don't deserve to have the bargaining power for the best deal for myself? No, I do not believe you are entitled to a wealth transfer from people who are better at your job than you are. (Or, to put it another way, you're certainly free to do a little collective bargaining if you'd like, but the World's Greatest Widget Engineer has no reason to join your union.)

I think a lot of devs are led to believe they're the World's Greatest Widget Engineer but what they've really fallen for is the "Hank Hill Special Deal" lol.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#428

Post by marricks »

schemescape wrote: post #426
marricks wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why make so much drama out of it? Well, lets see duckduckgo search the largest tech companies back to office dates... > Google tells employees to return to offices in April > Apple sets April 11 date for return to in-person work for corporate ... > Microsoft Returning to the Office on Feb. 28 as Covid Cases Decline I doubt they decided independently on a back to office date in the same ~1 month timeframe, remember…

For what it’s worth, Microsoft was not part of the anti-poaching scandal: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust...

Good catch, thank you.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#429

Post by WWLink »

hiptobecubic wrote: post #366
kortilla wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, but the company's interests are almost completely opposed to yours in most ways. You do know that your employment depends on the success of the business, right? The relationship with an employee is no more adversarial than your relationship with the local grocery store when you buy a bag of potatoes.

Yeah, except that switching grocery stores is practically zero cost, so any store that does silly shenanigans gets spanked almost immediately. Also, grocery stores are about a million billion gazillion times more transparent about trading with you relative to trading with other shoppers.

The trading with a grocery store is heavily regulated as well. They have requirements for storage and handling, their scales have to be calibrated, and there can be very strict fines for things like screwing around with sale prices.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#430

Post by rubidium »

ianai wrote: post #176
wanderingmind wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you need is a new job where they don't treat your skill as a cost center

“directly supports the main revenue-generating operations of the organization so there is real $$$ lost by having this position empty” How companies consider that a cost center is beyond me. But I’ve seen them do it.

It’s simple. If you’re in operations it’s all about increasing operating margin (omx). The simplest way to do that is to cut op expenses until you scrape bottom and op revenue dips. Then you adjust, firefight, and find other op expenses to cut.
Post reply on HN