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Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

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Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#421

Post by bhandziuk »

mrtranscendence wrote: post #254
ranci wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typically nurses are women. Typically women are married to men. Men worthy of a relationship or marriage to begin with typically have an income significantly higher than min wage, potentially capable of sustaining a family on his own. Nurses are women usually and women have options, usually.

This comment is kooky. Are you implying that one option for women nurses is marrying a higher-income man and becoming a stay-at-home spouse? Men making less than the median for their gender (something like $55k in the US) are still marriageable; plenty of women marry men who can’t support families on their salary alone. Even at the median salary, supporting two people — let alone a larger family — could be a struggle…

I think they're saying that married people might have a little more leeway in changing careers because they have the stability of a second income in their household already.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#422

Post by cupofpython »

vlunkr wrote: post #387

I'd like to know what "considering leaving" means in this study. I consider leaving my profession every time a React hook misbehaves and locks up my browser, but I'm not actually going to leave. 90% seems way too high to be people who are actively wanting to leave.

> 90% seems way too high to be people who are actively wanting to leave

We are talking about the people who clean up the nastiest human waste that our bodies are capable of producing. I was already surprised that this number was ever less than 100% tbh

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#423

Post by tick_tock_tick »

vincnetas wrote: post #111
bkjelden wrote: post #56

Not surprising. My partner is a DNP and has pretty strongly considered leaving the entire profession. From my perspective, the entire healthcare industry is set up to treat any frontline worker without an MD after their name as completely expendable, nothing more than a row in a spreadsheet that can be optimized for middle management to hit next quarter's bonus targets. You can meet all metrics management sets out fo…

Do nurses have work unions? Would that solve the issue?

Yes, they have massive unions but that doesn't seem to be helping.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#424

Post by elhudy »

yhoneycomb wrote: post #234
LewisVerstappen wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The healthcare system in the US clearly has nothing to do with free markets considering how unbelievably opaque and regulated everything is.

Actually, that’s exactly how unfettered “free market” capitalism operates. The end game is big companies end up controlling everything, including the regulations in order to tip the scales in their favor.

The healthcare industry disaster wasn't born out of regulatory control - though money does now follow the regulations. The disaster was born out of regulatory mistakes(in particular, look back to the 1940's when the govt made it tax free to offer health insurance as a benefit). [1]

The industry is an onion and in order to understand why it is the way it is today you need to peel back all of the layers that have been added by the govt over time and the unintended consequences of those.

[1] https://www.npr.org/2020/10/07/921287295/history-of-employer...

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#425

Post by giantg2 »

mikemac wrote: post #306
mfer wrote: post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

Agree with all of this, and just to add one thing: liability. Look at the RaDonda Vaught case or the Michelle Heughins case; terrifying to be looking at jail time for a med error. Many nurses are watching these cases more closely and deciding that since staffing isn't getting any better and they won't be protected, it's not worth the risk.

I believe you can even be personally liable for HIPPA security violations as a user or dev of a healthcare system. That seems a bit scary. I agree that regulation persuades people not to do things out of fear of breaking the law. We see this in it's intentional form with regulation of other things such as abortion, guns, etc. Put so many laws in place that risk of accidentally breaking one and receiving an extensive punishment isn't worth it.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#426

Post by tick_tock_tick »

hedora wrote: post #179
api wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lost their professional agency to do-nothing administrators You just summarized the decline of Western civilization in one phrase. This has happened almost everywhere and efforts to push back have proven extremely difficult. I personally place a lot of the blame on the educational system for overproducing administrative skill sets and underproducing practical skill sets. There is some role for those things of cours…

See also: California’s plan to eliminate algebra 2 and calculus from the highschool curriculum. It is being spearheaded by someone without a math degree, in the name of improving marketability of the kids for data science positions, or something. See also (2): Monty Python’s bicycle repairman sketch.

> in the name of improving marketability of the kids for data science positions, or something.

They have been very clear and upfront about the goal. They want to "solve" racial discrepancies in graduation rates so they've taken the classes often failed and are removing them.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#427

Post by peoplefromibiza »

mfer wrote: post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

preface: my parents are retired nurses and a big chunk of my family works in healthcare.

It sounds like the issues nurses face are global and do not significantly change across different systems (the system in my country is completely different from USA)

It probably comes down to the fact that this is a human problem and to solve it we must radically change the expectations around care and primarily being taken care of.

There's no technological deus ex machina or amount of training that can change the situation without shifting the POV.

IMO people working in HC are subject to a lot of stress and must be protected at the cost of making it a bit unpleasant for the patients to be cured.

It's such a fundamental foundation of our lives that the system should be calibrated to create the best possible working environment for those who are working instead of moving it toward a customer reviewd activity that focuses on their satisfaction.

I know it can sound unpopular, but receiving the best medical care possible is not a right, it's a goal that more often than not it's almost impossible to achieve, so let's improve the working conditions so that the workers can give their best without questioning too much all the sacrifices that the job requires.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#428

Post by cowpig »

LewisVerstappen wrote: post #207
dontbeevil1992 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The healthcare system in the US clearly has nothing to do with free markets considering how unbelievably opaque and regulated everything is.

There's no such thing as a "free market" for healthcare. The ability for consumers to exit a market is one of the prerequisites for the invisible hand effect. You can't exit the healthcare market.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#429

Post by aiisjustanif »

Wistar wrote: post #418
elhudy wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that nurses can now legally be thrown under the bus with criminal charges for malpractice while hospitals walk away scotch-free [1]. This is huge in the nursing community right now. [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/03/24/1088397...

And, alas, found guilty: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/03/25/1088902...

Jfc that is terrible.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#430

Post by supertrope »

vlunkr wrote: post #387

I'd like to know what "considering leaving" means in this study. I consider leaving my profession every time a React hook misbehaves and locks up my browser, but I'm not actually going to leave. 90% seems way too high to be people who are actively wanting to leave.

Stated and revealed preferences are very different.
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