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FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

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Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#421

Post by runako »

throwaway09223 wrote: post #412
briandear wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the vast majority of people would accept this estimate. And the vast majority of people would then overpay. The IRS knows income, but they don’t know expenses.

This would be true if it weren't for the standard deduction. Something like 90% of all filers opt for the standard deduction, obviating the need for itemized expenses. Almost everyone would be best served by IRS calculated taxes. It's the wealthy and those with non-wage income who need the alphabet schedules.

> those with non-wage income

This is a lot of people now, thanks to the gig economy. Similarly, farmers plus people who work for tips (at employers that do not centralize tips).

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#422

Post by KerrAvon »

medvezhenok wrote: post #369
autoexec wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American politicians can be bought off very cheaply by corporations, but the minute people try to crowd-fund bribes to get actual representation in government corporations will just start to offer more. Some companies and industries have more wealth than entire nations at their disposal. If it comes down to a bidding war between you and Google you will lose. If paying out a little more to congressmen will keep an ind…

A neat solution is actually public campaign financing. We currently say that you can give $3 towards public financing on your tax return when you file - why not make that $100? Collectively, people have a lot more money than corporations do - the trouble is organization. But basically flooding the system with so much money that corporate bribery becomes insignificant is the other option to banning it

It’s too late. Citizens United means corporations and the ueber-wealthy can do whatever they want. McCain-Feingold represented actual progress in this area, and it’s gone now. We are going to witness heavy fascism in the US, and I wish I knew what to do about it. Other than somehow prevent Peter Thiel from escaping to New Zealand, since it’s partially his fault and he should have to reap what he sowed.

(Tangentially, Feingold was one of the smartest people in the Senate. Wisconsin voted him out in favor of Johnson, one of the stupidest people in the Senate — the only thing that keeps him from the top spot is just the fuckload of really dumb other Republican senators.)

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#423

Post by Izkata »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #83
sofixa wrote: post #61

As i mentioned on another thread[1], that's one of those American things that really don't make any sense after spending more than a few seconds about it. There is no legitimate excuse for things to be this bad. The best I've heard is that paying taxes being hard is good because it reminds you how much money you give the government, so you are more attentive how it's spent, but it doesn't really make sense either. ht…

> paying taxes being hard is good because it reminds you how much money you give the government Wouldn't it be the opposite? Having a complicated tax system makes it harder to find out how much you're paying. If things were simpler it would be much more apparent.

It's pretty obvious if you do your own taxes, even without fully understanding the tax code. The last few lines include "Add up [lines]; this is the total you owe for the year: ____" and "Add up [lines]; this is how much you already paid: ____".

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#424

Post by recursive »

ghaff wrote: post #230
rurp wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many free filing options for anyone with an average salary from a straightforward W2 source. I went years without paying to file, until I got into freelancing and a higher tax bracket. Being audited isn't much of a concern if your only source of income is a typical W2 job. The average service worker isn't throwing money around in stocks, crypto, blackjack, and corporate entities.

Even if you toss in a 1099 or two taxes are still mostly straightforward. I’ve always had mine done but it’s mostly only in the last ten years or so that they’ve gotten genuinely complicated.

One time I had a single 1099 form, and I screwed it up badly enough that it took months to resolve, and dozens of hours on my part. Someone who understood the process probably could have sorted it out in minutes.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#425

Post by zerocrates »

deathanatos wrote: post #243
jackson1442 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's actually somewhat standard- even FreeTaxUSA (my personal choice) does this because they're essentially letting you use their product on credit.

I think the objection is not that they're charging a fee, it's that the fee is $39. TurboTax (just the basic federal edition) is what, $30? And yes, this is essentially credit, extended for what, a month? So ($39/$30 * 12) is yearly rate of like 1,560% for that credit, aka., highway robbery — that, I think, is the parent's point. (I might be a bit off on the price, but not enough to change the result. TurboTax's loss…

Plus they themselves have calculated that you're due a refund that will cover that cost already at this point, and they're going to directly pull their fees out of it... while not 100%, it's got to be pretty near the bottom in terms of risk. Especially if they still wait to pay you the balance until the refund is actually paid by the Treasury.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#426

Post by shados »

pc86 wrote: post #408
zw123456 wrote: post #271

A few years back I got audited, and it was called an "electronic audit" by the IRS. Which basically meant that they had their computer systems scour a bunch of the bank records and discovered that I had forgotten to claim a 1099 for some contract work I had. OK, so they sent me a computer print out and they had cross checked everything on my return electronically, my property tax deductions, my stock dividends so on…

Lobby certainly doesn't help but "just tell me what I owe" is not practical or possible, and is an overly simplistic view of everything about the system. Most importantly, the 1099 your client filed telling them you got paid more than $600 was due the same time your taxes were due, so they didn't know about it until after the fact. The feds have no idea how your deductions (and to a lesser extent, your income) have c…

A pretty damn large portion of people claim the standard deduction. They are paid on W2. Their investments are on 1099s. The cost basis are in supplemental documents that could easily be provided to the IRS in a format they can handle.

Yeah, it doesn't work for everyone. So they could offer it to you, and you have the choice to click "ok", or to click "add additional income and deduction". If your situation is so crazy that neither of those options work, you can then do it the classic/hard mode way with an accountant.

It's how it works in plenty of countries. The US is a bit unique with one of the more complex tax code in the world, but it would still work fine for a large portion of the population.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#427

Post by refurb »

zw123456 wrote: post #271

A few years back I got audited, and it was called an "electronic audit" by the IRS. Which basically meant that they had their computer systems scour a bunch of the bank records and discovered that I had forgotten to claim a 1099 for some contract work I had. OK, so they sent me a computer print out and they had cross checked everything on my return electronically, my property tax deductions, my stock dividends so on…

It's impossible to automate the tax filing process unless you simplify the tax code.

And I've filed taxes in countries with simple tax codes where the government pre-fills out the forms. Guess what? You still need to go and double check everything because the information comes from your employer. I've found mistakes before. So I pretty much "do my taxes" myself to make sure what the govt sends isn't wrong.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#428

Post by astura »

rurp wrote: post #175
zentiggr wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your situation sounds like one that a CPA would be perfect for - especially with business taxes involved. Our household has just the basic salaries / expenses / 401k / IRAs. THe year I received some temporary additional benefits, Intuit decided that I had to pay premium in order to enter that single additional 1099. I left, found a much simpler, straightforward service with which I filed legitimately free, and have n…

> I left, found a much simpler, straightforward service with which I filed legitimately free, and have never looked back. Which service is that? I haven't filed my taxes this year and am willing to spend some time switching to an app that's less scummy than Intuit's offerings.

Not GP but I've been using TaxHawk/FreeTaxUSA (same company runs both sites) for more than a decade with no problems, no upsells, and no dark patterns. Filing federal taxes is completely free with them for everyone, so there's no harm in giving them a shot. If you want to add your state tax filing in at the end (if applicable) it will only cost $15. There's no obligation to buy anything, you can file your federal taxes for free without purchasing the state tax filing option.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#429

Post by beej71 »

daniel-cussen wrote: post #309
beej71 wrote: post #307

Here's what's worked for me in terms of not paying Intuit any money (as a W-2 and 1099 earner): If there's something you can't figure out, is risky, or a one-off, hire someone to do your taxes. Then use that as a template for subsequent years to do it yourself. Also, use the federal free fillable forms to e-file. They might be available for your state, as well.

Just do it by mail.

It costs the taxpayers less money to file electronically. And it's less error-prone.

But as long as Intuit isn't making any money, I'm fine with whatever.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#430

Post by korginator »

This is band-aid for a fracture. Suing Intuit does not address the underlying problem.

It's not hard to collect income data automatically. Here in Singapore (as in many other countries) I get a message reminding me to check my tax data before the filing date. I just login and click "Submit". If I forget to do this, I may miss some deductions, but it goes through anyway.

Tax filing can be made simple enough that a layperson can do it without employing an accountant.

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