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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#421

Post by swayvil »

jonnycoder wrote: post #396
swayvil wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around here the only people who wear the mask are the obvious crazies and the ones being forced by the boss. And that second class doffs the rag every chance they get. But I live in the sticks. Social pressure is much lower here compared to the city. In the city. Yeah. The city is rough. All those people crammed together. It changes reality.

Not as much as you think. Just look at the Super Bowl, in LA, and all the celebrities not wearing a mask.

Maybe that's how it's going to go. Exposed face and unimpeded breathing only for the aristocracy.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#422

Post by standeven »

johnnyApplePRNG wrote: post #320

The situation in Canada right now in insane. Police and government officials are actually trying to convince the public that "trucks blocking streets is an act of violence". That's the most non-violent form of protest I can imagine. While at the same time they are restricting the truckers gasoline that would allow them to both keep warm in these ridiculously cold temperatures and move their trucks out of the streets.…

There have been multiple arrests for hate crimes[1], and 11 people were arrested in an Alberta blockade due to their cache of firearms and willingness to use it against the RCMP.[2] The blockades may be costing the Canadian economy $1 billion every day [3]. If these protest are peaceful and about mandates, they should be protesting at provincial legislative buildings.

1- https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/hate-crimes-ottawa-protest

2- https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-blocka...

3- https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/anarchism-convoy-column-don...

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#423

Post by Ensorceled »

naasking wrote: post #275
WesternWind wrote: post #191

Some facts (and a few polls) suggest that the Trucker convoy isn't a broadly popular movement of truckers as much as a well funded tiny minority without broad support even from truckers. First 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated. https://newrepublic.com/article/165341/fox-news-vaccine-cana... Evidence suggests that funding for this protest is in large part foreign (IE not from canada) and that most canadian donat…

This is deceptive. It's not supported by a majority of Canadians, but their message was still supported by almost half of Canadians at the outset, and is still supported by a third. When a third of your population speaks, you should listen if you're a representative democracy.

A recent poll indicated that most Canadians disagree with the protest on almost all matters[1] and that almost 3/4 of Canadians support vaccine passports. Not sure where you are getting your numbers.

Yes, you need to listen to your minorities but this is the tail wagging the dog.

[1] https://brighterworld.mcmaster.ca/articles/analysis-majority...

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#424

Post by airmailspecial »

armagon wrote: post #332

> 5:05 p.m. > Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said he has invoked the Emergencies Act as a “last resort” to bolster the police response to convoy demonstrators and to “bring the situation fully under control.” I really feel like there were a number of "resorts" that could've been taken before this "last" one. Engaging in dialogue with the truckers and not inflaming the situation by calling the truckers names are at the…

> Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said he has invoked the Emergencies Act as a “last resort” to bolster the police response to convoy demonstrators and to “bring the situation fully under control.”

What was the "first resort"? Trudeau isn't even willing to speak with the protesters.

>There is still no indication Trudeau is willing to sit down or speak to convoy participants. He said he doesn’t regret describing those taking part with “unacceptable views” as a “fringe” in Canada[0] [0] https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/pm-says-everything-on-the-ta...

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#425

Post by defaultname »

tdfx wrote: post #360
defaultname wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Using government power intended for things like war" This isn't the war measures act. It is a response specifically targeted to situations like this. "I hope the response is a protest escalation" That's neat. I hope that every protester that misused a privilege of their CDL lose their truck license, lose insurance, have their bank accounts locked, and face enormous fines. I guess we have differing hopes. Sign petiti…

> But if you try to force your political will through force [...] you have crossed a line and need to be reigned in Like forcing people out of their job for refusing a vaccine? Disclaimer: I'm vaccinated and I encourage everyone to do it. But no one should have to under threat to their livelihood, especially given the absurd logical inconsistencies of the mandate rules.

> Like forcing people out of their job for refusing a vaccine?

Before vaccination was politicized in the US (bizarrely, I must say, through mechanisms that I find absolutely baffling), many jobs had mandatory vaccinations. Most healthcare setting have mandatory yearly flu vaccinations, for instance. The military has a whole plethora of mandatory vaccinations, including some pretty crazy ones. And of course schools, daycare, etc have forced vaccinations.

Suddenly it's a big issue. Ask yourself why.

And for what it's worth, I've been against mandates since omicron made it evident that they were no longer useful. I have zero tolerance for these protests, though, and would like to see them absolutely stomped.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#426

Post by [deleted] »

sokoloff wrote: post #352
naasking wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is deceptive. It's not supported by a majority of Canadians, but their message was still supported by almost half of Canadians at the outset, and is still supported by a third. When a third of your population speaks, you should listen if you're a representative democracy.

You should listen to the one-third, but you also should listen to the two-thirds and weigh their opinion appropriately more heavily.

[deleted]

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#427

Post by pomdapi »

akerl_ wrote: post #137
edmcnulty101 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Locking bank accounts at all WITHOUT A TRIAL, seems dystopian. That's a lot of power for the state to have to be able to reach into some ones bank accounts with no due process. Edit: changed AT ALL to without a trial because on second thought resized it's possible that there are some legit uses for freezing bank accounts.

Seizing funds from criminals to restrict their ability to perpetrate and profit from crime is a tool used by law enforcement in essentially every country, and has been happening for a long time. There’s plenty of areas of this that are misused (see things like civil asset forfeiture), but the overarching strategy of freezing bank accounts isn’t novel or dystopian. Edit: it’s a bit sneaky to change “AT ALL” to “WITHOU…

Yeah, but in most countries there is due process in front of a judge to do that.

You can't just have the executive decide they can do that using pure administrative action to seize property. Also, you generally also have to prove in a court of law there was a crime before you can do anything at all.

The US civilian asset forfeiture (and now in Canada too, it seems) are actually quite unique in that regard outside of maybe China (not sure even you can do that there anymore), and at most couple other dystopian very authoritarian nations.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#428

Post by 1024core »

alphabettsy wrote: post #214
1024core wrote: post #5

It is ironical that Trudeau is whining about these "protests" now, when they're at home. He was singing a different tune when farmers in India were doing similar things: https://indianexpress.com/article/india/situation-is-concern...

Edit: I’ll avoid commenting on other nations events that I don’t understand.

> It was reported that they were being attacked and beaten in India.

If by "they" you mean the cops, then yes.

See this, for instance: https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/11-held-...

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#429

Post by sdsaga12 »

WesternWind wrote: post #191

Some facts (and a few polls) suggest that the Trucker convoy isn't a broadly popular movement of truckers as much as a well funded tiny minority without broad support even from truckers. First 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated. https://newrepublic.com/article/165341/fox-news-vaccine-cana... Evidence suggests that funding for this protest is in large part foreign (IE not from canada) and that most canadian donat…

Negative coverage is much easier to come by than positive coverage if you mostly consume legacy/corporate media on this issue. If you're interested in a deeper understanding of people who support this movement than you can gain from a few embedded tweets in an article or a reporter's attempt to summarize the motivations and backgrounds of a large group of people, here's a YouTube channel that has been doing extended live streams from the ground in Ottawa: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzGiDDKdphJ0GFvEd82WfYQ/vid...

The channel owner is a Canadian lawyer named Viva Frei. Frei's personal attitude toward the protests is broadly supportive, but the valuable thing about his coverage is that he speaks to anybody who is willing to talk to him as he wanders around the streets of Ottawa, including counter-protestors.

A livestream can never be a true replacement for being there in person, but this is the best that I've found. Coverage from other livestream channels is also easily available on YouTube.

It's very easy for lack of understanding to lead to distrust, fear, and hate. You can (and very well might) disagree with people after having heard them out, but you will almost certainly view them as more human, and is that not the central feature the empathetic mindset is supposed to be about?

If you have the time, I recommend making an effort to watch extended and unedited interviews with the people behind any protest movement you intend to form a strong opinion about (not just this one).

Remember that the literal definition of "prejudice" is something close to a "decision formed without due examination of the facts or arguments necessary to a just and impartial decision." [1] If you don't wish to be prejudiced, don't let yourself form a strong opinion without first having learned what people you think you disagree with have to say for themselves.

[1] https://www.etymonline.com/word/prejudice#etymonline_v_19410

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#430

Post by iqanq »

malermeister wrote: post #261
tonfreed wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds a little silly to confiscate the assets of the people bringing the food to your table. That and the towies in the area are refusing to move any of the trucks. Trudeau just looks weak at this point, and for a prime minister that got in because of his good looks and his dad's popularity it's not a good omen.

90% of truckers are vaccinated. [0] This isn't "truckers" protesting, this is the radical fringe. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/28/canada-truck...

I am vaccinated and I oppose mandates. Who am I to tell others what to do?
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