Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

421–430 of 433 posts

Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#421

Post by notnaut »

eric_b wrote: post #251
dataflow wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is your big experiment? No, it's the first more- controlled experiment (more controlled than a pandemic!) I could think of off the top of my head. I don't know how to argue this when you seem to have no regard for the idea of controlling for other variables. Nor for the manner (like frequency) in which the funds are distributed. Nor for anything that I can see, other than the sheer amount of money dumped into…

You sure like to be condescending. Every one of your replies to me starts with condescension. And I mean... my guy... I don't really think any of your comments are particularly compelling. I'm very aware of the state of UBI research, and I don't consider any of it to be very meaningful. I guess you do - that's great. But to completely discount the COVID stimulus is... cognitive dissonance.

> You have to be kidding me. This is your big experiment?

>> You sure like to be condescending.

this place gets more and more like reddit every day...

Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#422

Post by Broken_Hippo »

kortilla wrote: post #418
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have sources that I'm willing to look up, but no, not really. Trickle down economics doesn't work like promised.

What are you talking about? This isn’t trickle down economics. This is just literally paying back interest on a loan and not going bankrupt (Bank of America, Merrill Lynch). There is an immediate first order return and the second order return of not letting the largest banks fail was widely believed to be positive even in retrospect by both Democrats and Republicans. Do you even know what trickle down economics is? I…

"You’re considering secondary effects, which would have also happened with the money loaned to the banks."

Quote, you. The effects of such a thing simply aren't the same. Poor people aren't helped when you give folks money at the top - which is, after all, what the taxation policy does. It isn't uncommon to include things that aren't strictly taxation in this.

Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#423

Post by wizzwizz4 »

westurner wrote: post #417
westurner wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we rely upon reports apparently generated from reconciled alternate accounting systems to determine whether the funds were appropriated impactfully?

TheGivingBlock specializes in handling cryptoasset donations with tax receipts. (We don't yet (?) prefill returns in the US) When you donate to a TheGivingBlock Cause Fund, you get a tax receipt by email and the donation is privately sent to each of the multiple registered nonprofit charities included in that particular Fund. TheGivingBlock Cause Funds map to the UN SDG Sustainable Development Goals; are categoricall…

Most of the highest-impact charities wouldn't score highly on a “what happens to the money” metric. Think of the good stuff the Gates Foundation has been doing, or the GiveWell top charities. It's a good way of measuring the benefits of cash injection, but that's all.

Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#424

Post by westurner »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #423
westurner wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TheGivingBlock specializes in handling cryptoasset donations with tax receipts. (We don't yet (?) prefill returns in the US) When you donate to a TheGivingBlock Cause Fund, you get a tax receipt by email and the donation is privately sent to each of the multiple registered nonprofit charities included in that particular Fund. TheGivingBlock Cause Funds map to the UN SDG Sustainable Development Goals; are categoricall…

Most of the highest-impact charities wouldn't score highly on a “what happens to the money” metric. Think of the good stuff the Gates Foundation has been doing, or the GiveWell top charities. It's a good way of measuring the benefits of cash injection, but that's all.

Water for kids? What's the ROI on that, right?

Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#425

Post by kar5pt »

technothrasher wrote: post #381
throwaway6734 wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay more with that pot of gold you're sitting on?

We are absolutely paying our people more, just gave everybody raises. But can’t get new people even when we offer more.

"I went to the market and offered $2 for a loaf of bread - the shopkeeper said no. So I offered $3, but he still said no. This must mean that no amount of money could possibly buy a loaf of bread and not that the price of bread has risen above what I offered."

Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#426

Post by codeivore »

biorach wrote: post #365
codeivore wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, an article in a publication where the authors are anonymous because the views published in it are painfully true enough to make you real life enemies

all of the economist articles are anonymous https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2013/09/04/...

that's my point

Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#427

Post by biorach »

codeivore wrote: post #426
biorach wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

all of the economist articles are anonymous https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2013/09/04/...

that's my point

> the views published in it are painfully true enough to make you real life enemies

That is not why the Economist's articles are anonymous. Please read the article I posted which explains why.

Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#428

Post by kortilla »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #422
kortilla wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? This isn’t trickle down economics. This is just literally paying back interest on a loan and not going bankrupt (Bank of America, Merrill Lynch). There is an immediate first order return and the second order return of not letting the largest banks fail was widely believed to be positive even in retrospect by both Democrats and Republicans. Do you even know what trickle down economics is? I…

"You’re considering secondary effects, which would have also happened with the money loaned to the banks." Quote, you. The effects of such a thing simply aren't the same. Poor people aren't helped when you give folks money at the top - which is, after all, what the taxation policy does. It isn't uncommon to include things that aren't strictly taxation in this.

Giving a loan to a huge publicly traded bank isn’t “giving folks money at the top”. You’re very confused about what is being discussed.

Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#429

Post by gnat »

tragictrash wrote: post #81
gnat wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what happened with student housing subsidies in NZ. Labour were elected and fulfilled a campaign promise by raising the housing allowance by $150 pw. Rents in Wellington rose $150 pw at the same time.

Do you have a link to a more in depth article?

Hm, government commissioned research says this isn't happening. I may be forced to eat my words.

https://www.motu.nz/assets/Documents/our-work/population-and...

That said: "Larger rent increases were observed among those who received larger increases in accommodation payments."

Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#430

Post by moneywoes »

MattGaiser wrote: post #94
rory wrote: post #60

I know a few upper-middle class small business owners (all non-retail sectors) whose businesses weren't substantially affected by the pandemic, but who basically got a free handout as part of the program. Two mentioned how they were initially hesitant to apply for money, but then worried that if they didn't, their business could take a downturn after it was too late. Then as long as they spent the money on payroll (w…

A friend worked for a company that used the Canadian equivalent during a period of record growth. As they doubled their headcount, they got the gov to pay for it all.

Was this around the CERB time?
Post reply on HN