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Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

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Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#421

Post by deadbunny »

montblanc wrote: post #404
mercy_dude wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How much did an internet connection cost in the 1970s? What about a computer? What about a smartphone? This is the elitist fallacy that somehow having access cheap smartphones and plastics mostly manufactured in China at the back of our working class jobs make your life better while all else indicates life expectancy and quality of life across the board is declining for majority of Americans. Many Americans includi…

> How does having cheap access to internet makes the quality of your life better Whoa that's a bit of a reach no? How about the ability to drive around with GPS? Or stay easily in touch with family living far away? Taking photos of your baby and having it stored on the cloud for free? The ability to learn almost anything for free? I'm not saying it's all great, it isn't, but we can't deny the benefits.

> How about the ability to drive around with GPS?

Maps, and the ability to read them.

> Or stay easily in touch with family living far away?

Phones, you know good old land lines

> Taking photos of your baby and having it stored on the cloud for free?

Why do I need physical photos stored in the cloud?

> The ability to learn almost anything for free?

Have ya heard of libraries?

Does technology make these more convenient? Absolutely. Does it make them materially better? Not in my opinion.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#422

Post by Jenk »

guerrilla wrote: post #419
Jenk wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean.. as long as it's a fair election and not a campaign of lies, maybe the problem isn't the political parties and actually, people just really want the right to reign?

> people just really want the right to reign Many people do. I see this as a dangerous problem. Weimar Germany also really wanted the right to reign and it didn't turn out well. The party here was founded in part by two literal Nazis and a bunch of skinheads. I don't really care what people want when they want them to rule.

I'm caught in a (philosophical?) dillemna though: I don't want the right to rise to power because I fear for the future of freedom, but I would be repressing freedom by ostracising/excluding the right from electoral eligibility. Is technocracy the answer? Have some kind of determinable objective truth rule? How do we mitigate for failure to identify the objective truth in that case?

.. and on continues the shower thought.

Overall I'm worried, though. There are many hallmarks about the current political climate that have been present in the not-that-long-before any major conflict in history. I really, honestly, am worried there will be some large conflict in our lifetime.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#423

Post by anshumankmr »

jordan_curve wrote: post #187
tobltobs wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "left" elites Bernie isn't elite and not close to any power circle.

What do you mean? He is currently a U.S. Senator. There aren’t many circles more elite or powerful than that.

Plus he is a multi-millionaire.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#424

Post by nickpp »

dtech wrote: post #305
nickpp wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things with massive government involvement and heavily regulated like are incredibly more expensive: health care, housing and education. Meanwhile, things provided by the free market have become incredibly less expensive and more powerful: technology, communication, entertainment. Nothing to do with your rich vs poor class wars.

Government is also heavily involved in car manufacturing and air travel those have become much cheaper. The real reason is non-scaling vs scaling, IP like tech and entertainment and internet are incredibly cheap to scale. Manufacturing has also become a lot cheaper and automated. In contrast, things that are supply constrained (housing) or mostly depend on human labour have become expensive. A nurse spends approximat…

Houses are supply constrained not because they're expensive to build (there technology helped) but because it's incredibly difficult to be allowed to build, due to... you guessed it - the countless rules and regulations.

There is a deficit of qualified nurses not only because it takes time and money to train one but also because you are not legally allowed to hire one even if you find it, without the necessary papers and certifications. More regulations!

So even if I agree with you - the human labor cost has increased and things dependent on it have become more expensive, the supply is artificially constrained by regulations as well.

Imagine if it was illegal to hire programmers without a certification from a government approved body. Would we still enjoy this explosion of incredibly cheap software in everything?

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#425

Post by diordiderot »

hectord wrote: post #285
toyg wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a non-American, it's heartbreaking to see efforts to unify the underclass completely derailed by this ridiculous race war. Yeah, well, it's not like things are much better in Europe. Far-right parties are now mainstream in most major EU countries, and their n.1 priority is exactly the same. Signed, a Brexit victim.

Please don't generalize. Far-right parties are not mainstream everywhere. Europe is complex, as much as the US. The issue with this way of thinking is that you look away from countries which might have good policies. These policies could be used in the US.

> not mainstream everywhere

FR: Front national IT: lega Nord DL: AFD ES: Vox

They're taking over Europe because neoliberals are full of shit, and the left wing has their hands tied.

Normal people have nowhere else to go.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#427

Post by nly »

sigmaprimus wrote: post #411
nly wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it wasn't 'easy' to make mortgage payments back then. Mr Market always prices monthly outgoings for housing to some % of typical income. The difference is those who managed to get on the property ladder in between the 70s and 90s saw falling rates and their LTV ratios being crushed as property prices sawed. Today many of those people live in 7 figure homes in the middle of prime city centers, or bought seco…

>>>Today many of those people live in 7 figure homes in the middle of prime city centers. Many of those people live in their same homes, the city grew up around them. At risk of making a generalization, too many young people feel they should get to start at the top. People who bought homes in the 70s spent a lifetime accumulating their wealth, many of them have supported two generations of children and are still work…

> too many young people feel they should get to start at the top.

I wouldn't call a dual income couple in their mid 30s paying >40% of take-home pay for a 2 bedroom flat "the top", but ok.

I guess my parents who started with a 3 bed family home on a single blue-collar income started at the fucking apex.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#428

Post by trizuz »

Gareth321 wrote: post #250

Real wages have been flat since the 1970s ( https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us... ). "Okay, so people's living standards are about the same since 1970?" Not even close. The problem with inflation is that its calculation is fraught with all kinds of selective weighting, bias, and politics. Take a look at the relative differences between the things which have decreased and increased in cost in…

https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#429

Post by deadbunny »

mrep wrote: post #385
oblio wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to believe anything, you can check for yourself. The numbers are easily available online. Healthcare is 2-3-4 times >. Education is generally >. Housing is expensive outside the US, too, a bit less so. I feel the problem is not regulation in the US, it's that you half ass it. Americans are all about "rugged individualism" and "small government" when advanced societies are advanced because large groups…

The US has the 3rd lowest housing price to income ratio [0]. You just need to avoid the west coast and northeast and you can find plenty of affordable housing [1]. [0]: https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings_by_count... [1]: https://www.supermoney.com/inflation-adjusted-home-prices/

How does the availability of jobs/salaries map to that though? Sure you might be able to buy a 2000sqft house for $40k but what salary are you on?

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#430

Post by willcipriano »

deadbunny wrote: post #421
montblanc wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How does having cheap access to internet makes the quality of your life better Whoa that's a bit of a reach no? How about the ability to drive around with GPS? Or stay easily in touch with family living far away? Taking photos of your baby and having it stored on the cloud for free? The ability to learn almost anything for free? I'm not saying it's all great, it isn't, but we can't deny the benefits.

> How about the ability to drive around with GPS? Maps, and the ability to read them. > Or stay easily in touch with family living far away? Phones, you know good old land lines > Taking photos of your baby and having it stored on the cloud for free? Why do I need physical photos stored in the cloud? > The ability to learn almost anything for free? Have ya heard of libraries? Does technology make these more convenien…

I'm fairly convinced that having to do things as you described was better for mental health as well. The always on, always connected lifestyle has big downsides.
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