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Toyota owners have to pay $8/month to keep using their key fob for remote start

arstechnica.com

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Re: Toyota owners have to pay $8/month to keep using their key fob for remote start

#421

Post by Symbiote »

tw04 wrote: post #372
wikibob wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absurd victim blaming. The problem is there is a door handle that is designed with a failure mode such that pulling the handle DOES NOT OPEN THE DOOR.

But the handle DOES open the door. It’s just at your feet, quite clearly marked, instead of physically on the door. It’s specifically there so that if you are in an accident you can still release the door. It’s designed With the idea the car will see a road course and is far superior to a handle on the door. It’s sad he died but I found that handle in the first 5 minutes of owning my first corvette. It has a giant re…

When you're half dazed from a collision and the car is on fire, will your scared but unhurt 11 year old son know where this hidden lever is?

I did, on a 1980s car, since it was the normal door handle.

Re: Toyota owners have to pay $8/month to keep using their key fob for remote start

#422

Post by bigiain »

alistairSH wrote: post #258
silisili wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait what, do Corvettes not just unlock and open when you pull the handle? Every vehicle I've ever owned, from the 80s to now, manual or electric lock, the front doors both open when the handle is pulled, locked or not. If this isn't the case, I'm almost inclined to consider that criminally negligent.

Sure enough, Corvettes since the mid-00s (at least) have electronic doors. Here's a video describing how to use the manual overrides (none are in plain sight)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLDqmGQU6L0 Here's a photo of thee door interior (with no mechanical door pull)... https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/7I8AAOSwF-tgN5U1/s-l300.jpg

A long time ago, a friend bought a kit for one of these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purvis_Eureka

I spent a lot of time helping build it.

He got the "electric roof" version, which had this awful hodgepodge for pneumatic rams, high pressure air hoses and couplings, and a seriously underpowered hydraulic pump - with instructions to fill the system with auto transmission fluid.

It was _not_ a well designed and reliable system, and some of the failure modes left the roof/door clamped down. He kept a pocket knife in th4e glovebox so you could stab the hoses to release the hydraulic fluid and manually push the roof open.

It wasn't until it failed closed while he was taking his girlfriend to the high school formal/dance, then ruined her dress by getting red auto trans fluid on it that he bit the bullet and threw all the supplied parts away and replaced it all with electric liner actuators...

Re: Toyota owners have to pay $8/month to keep using their key fob for remote start

#423

Post by MAGZine »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #254
matthewdgreen wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$8/mo is genuinely a lot of money for this kind of infrastructure, even if there are developers and servers to be paid for. Assume that there are only 100,000 users. This would imply $9.6M per year in revenue to cover infrastructure and dev salaries for a system that handles ~2 queries/day/customer! And 100,000 is a very small number. Presumably Toyota has millions of customers. If you think that's reasonable, consid…

Tesla has a mobile app that can remotely turn on the climate controls, lock the car, open/close/crack open the windows, enable sentry mode, show the exact GPS location of your car, and more. In the car, you get GPS that is constantly updated. And you pay $0/month for any of that. They DO offer a $10/month "Premium Connectivity" package. That adds music streaming via Slacker Radio, Tidal, and Spotify, enables satellit…

As a reminder, "Premium Connectivity" package was originally included for with an unpublished end date for their vehicles, until it wasn't.

All of the remote controls you talk about being free are provided over cellular connections, in addition to nav, voice support, and telemetry being sent back to tesla.

as such, tesla is subject to the same economics as toyota, they have just decided to hide it in the price of the vehicles or on the backs of their investors. They pay AT&T to connect their vehicles to the internet.

Perhaps starlink will allow them to keep hiding the cost, perhaps not, especially if Tesla tries to turn the revenue knobs.

Re: Toyota owners have to pay $8/month to keep using their key fob for remote start

#424

Post by BitwiseFool »

xtracto wrote: post #391
BitwiseFool wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"your choice of vehicle brand is fungible" I disagree wholeheartedly. One of the things Toyota has done is to establish itself as a reliable automaker of quality. People specifically think of Toyota/Honda as the vehicle makes which are most likely to last a long time and put up with abuse. Contrast this to the reputation of GM or Daewoo. You also have the human element, where people are attracted to brand marketing…

> One of the things Toyota has done is to establish itself as a reliable automaker of quality. People specifically think of Toyota/Honda as the vehicle makes which are most likely to last a long time and put up with abuse. I find these and Apple "apologies" funny: "Fucking Apple and their monopolistic practices!!! ... but they are so pretty , there's nothing as pretty in the market". Well, having bad market practices…

>"I find these and Apple "apologies" funny"

In what way is it an apology? People will continue to buy [product] despite the producer utilizing some bad market practices if they feel like they are still getting something valuable from the exchange. I am still angry about losing the audio jack on my iPhone but not enough switch platforms.

>"Well, having bad market practices is part of the product feature, so you can vote with your wallet for a product with less bells and whistles but better business practices."

Of course, I wasn't claiming otherwise. And, I wasn't talking about bells and whistles, I was talking about build quality and reliability. It's not a stretch to say that a Toyota will probably hold up better to wear and tear than a Ford would. That's a big factor in many people's choice of vehicles. I can easily see a person grudgingly accepting an $8/mo keyfob because they think the Corolla won't suffer from transmission issues the same way a Fiesta would.

Re: Toyota owners have to pay $8/month to keep using their key fob for remote start

#426

Post by jpalawaga »

nitrogen wrote: post #412
PenguinCoder wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mentioned Jetbrains but not worse actors like Adobe, or Microsoft. Seems disingenuous.

The OP has probably managed to eliminate Adobe and MS from their lives, so they didn't come to mind.

Jetbrains can be used without a subscription, unless if you want the most recent software updates.

It does seem like a disingenuous comparison. I feel like JetBrains has a pretty fair revenue model.

Re: Toyota owners have to pay $8/month to keep using their key fob for remote start

#427

Post by nataz »

BobbyJo wrote: post #349
ameen wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for sharing this. I've often wondered how some folks deal with misfortune, take it in stride and work through them than abandon all hope for an easier route. Perseverance and Endurance are a rarity in today's society.

> Perseverance and Endurance are a rarity in today's society. No, they're just quiet.

This comment needs to be internalized by everyone who has ever worked in a collaborative environment, or God forbid manage a team of people.

For all the hard charging, 10x programer, I am a builder let me work folks out there...Empathy is hard to learn, but you'll be a better person for it. I promise.

Re: Toyota owners have to pay $8/month to keep using their key fob for remote start

#428

Post by sbierwagen »

bigiain wrote: post #422
alistairSH wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure enough, Corvettes since the mid-00s (at least) have electronic doors. Here's a video describing how to use the manual overrides (none are in plain sight)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLDqmGQU6L0 Here's a photo of thee door interior (with no mechanical door pull)... https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/7I8AAOSwF-tgN5U1/s-l300.jpg

A long time ago, a friend bought a kit for one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purvis_Eureka I spent a lot of time helping build it. He got the "electric roof" version, which had this awful hodgepodge for pneumatic rams, high pressure air hoses and couplings, and a seriously underpowered hydraulic pump - with instructions to fill the system with auto transmission fluid. It was _not_ a well designed and reliab…

For those who haven't clicked the link: The roof/doors are all one big assembly that hinges up and away, like Lambo doors for the entire top of the car.

Re: Toyota owners have to pay $8/month to keep using their key fob for remote start

#429

Post by sbierwagen »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #236
silisili wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait what, do Corvettes not just unlock and open when you pull the handle? Every vehicle I've ever owned, from the 80s to now, manual or electric lock, the front doors both open when the handle is pulled, locked or not. If this isn't the case, I'm almost inclined to consider that criminally negligent.

> the front doors both open when the handle is pulled, locked or not The fact that the front doors both unlock when a single handle is pulled is because there's an electronic sensor and solenoid that unlocks everything when one handle is opened. I had a Pontiac Vibe (really a Toyota Matrix) that had a cable in the door unlock assembly fail. You could open the door from the outside - the external door handle was physi…

That's a fairly common failure for many older cars. I had a 1997 Jaguar do the same thing.

Re: Toyota owners have to pay $8/month to keep using their key fob for remote start

#430

Post by brokenmachine »

winternett wrote: post #174
bserge wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I could have just bought the device with a remote at Auto Zone for 1/4 of the price But you didn't? I hope your realize at least half of the responsibility is on you as a consumer. You pay for and enable these idiotic ideas.

Incorrect, all of their cars come without the option. Buying an alternate car just because of one corrupt feature is not reasonable nor effective as a protest, many new cars now leverage this tactic and there is no real choice because they get away with it based on leverage. The responsibility is on regulators, not me as a consumer.

When the regulators have failed, the only option is to vote with your wallet.

I'm sticking to older cars without this nonsense.

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