Web3? I have my DAOts • Hacker News Board

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#421

Post by meheleventyone » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 10:20 AM UTC

_gf4m wrote: post #224

dperfect wrote: post #78

I completely agree with the author. I've been reading a lot about the EVM, and while there's some interesting technology involved, it feels unlikely to be able to support any worthwhile applications outside of blockchain finance or moving $ around the world[0] (since the code can really only directly reference the blockchain itself). It's a bit like playing with a programming language in a sandbox that has (1) has no…

ETH's current scalability problems are beyond terrible, but there are alternatives. You can use chains like Polygon or Avalanche that are EVM, so you get all of the capabilities of Ethereum, but without insane gas fees. There are non-EVM solutions as well like Solana, which has substantially higher throughput while transactions cost a fraction of a cent. Try out other chains than ETH before ruling out web3 imo. There…

Even the cheaper chains are much more expensive than the actual compute cost.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#422

Post by daoismyname » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 10:22 AM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #109

daoismyname wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s worth considering what the value proposition of crypto looks like if you were to find yourself living under an illegitimate authority The cables where communications pass through are protected by armies If crypto eventually could pose a threat to those illegitimate authorities, they would give orders to cut the cables and games would be over. they could also trace them back to your house.

I wrote: > It may be marginal if the authority can stop it Because often the response to claims like the one I made is to just hand wave it away as some kind of Armageddon situation. But it doesn't have to be. The USSR and the modern day CCP operate in an environment where certain levels of criminality are virtuous, but things are not so draconian or suppressive as the environment you state.

of course they would not literally cut the cables.

they would.block the crypto traffic

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#423

Post by daoismyname » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 10:25 AM UTC

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #190

daoismyname wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s worth considering what the value proposition of crypto looks like if you were to find yourself living under an illegitimate authority The cables where communications pass through are protected by armies If crypto eventually could pose a threat to those illegitimate authorities, they would give orders to cut the cables and games would be over. they could also trace them back to your house.

If your government was cutting off access to internet over the possibility that people might use it to conduct their business in cryptocurrency, do you think local demand for crypto would increase or decrease? The cable-cut might work for a while, but it wouldn't take too long for partition tolerant crypos emerge. You don't really need global consistency for most things, given that resources tend to be local.

> The cable-cut might work for a while,

I don't see any crypto zealot laying cables in the ocean to connect Europe and USA

do you really think the army would allow it?

but cutting cables is the nuclear option, I see much more probable that terrorists will try it in the future, because is such a fundamental weakness of the internet right now

a government would simply block crypto traffic

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#424

Post by misja111 » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 10:26 AM UTC

I can see the benefit of having a platform to run decentralised applications, as described in the article. And yes one could use smart contracts for that.

But what I fail to see is why this would need blockchain. It just seems overhead for me for this particular use case. The only benefit I see is that mentoning 'blockchain' is guaranteed to get plenty of investor money for whatever distributed app you're building.

But maybe I'm missing someting?

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#425

Post by lottin » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 10:26 AM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #419

lottin wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the basic problem is ownership rights over physical objects can't be enforced without coercive power, but blockchains and smart contracts can't use coercive power, therefore they would have to rely on an external entity to enforce such rights. But then the system is no longer "trustless", "permissionless", or "censorship-resistant", and therefore we have none of the supposed benefits of blockchains but we do have…

Blockchain governs the DIGITAL sphere and in there can actually enforce. People who are trying to combine crypto with physical assets are a shrinking number. Focus on digital and its absolutely enforcable, to an extent not even governments can accomplish.

Not at all, blockchains can't enforce intellectual property rights either. For example, how is a blockchain going to stop an individual from using unlicensed content on their website?

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#426

Post by codebolt » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 10:28 AM UTC

digitailor wrote: post #179

Animats wrote: post #99

OK. The reason all this happening is that Bitcoin really did go to the moon. That's what powers all this speculation. If the price of Bitcoin had been stable for a decade, and it worked reliably, it would be a useful medium of exchange, but nobody would care. This is all about MAKE MONEY FAST. Bitcoin found some early use cases. Drugs first. Then getting money out of China. Money laundering. Tax evasion. Scams. Bitco…

Barring value judgements about the subject, there are some large chronology and fact checking problems with this post. The federal scrutiny of Bitcoin happened a long time ago now. The China crackdown was this year. The US agencies mentioned all started examining bitcoin in 2012 at the very latest, and had a decent grip by the next year. Left off the list is the agency with the most impactful jurisdiction- the DHS- w…

Regardless of Bitcoin itself, it seems the US has started looking at Federal regulation of stablecoins only this year. The way it looks to me, the existence of wildcat stablecoins are an important pillar keeping the crypto economy afloat. Just this week Tether was seen printing billions again, just as Bitcoin started going south.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#427

Post by lottin » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 10:30 AM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #415

lottin wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just more practical using a blockchain. The popularity of centralised exchanges vis-a-vis blockchain wallets suggests the opposite is true.

Here lies the problem: you live in the present, I live in the future. And right now, I don't see any reason why that can't be fixed in the future.

You said blockchains are more practical, in the present tense. The evidence strongly suggests that's not true. And there are plenty of reasons to think they will continue to be impractical in the future.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#428

Post by grey-area » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 10:33 AM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #401

grey-area wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

all the other assets that can absorb billions of dollars in liquidity are throughly manipulated Bitcoin is thoroughly manipulated. Tether is minting a billion dollars a day now, with zero oversight and close ties to the major exchanges. Exchanges themselves have been found front running customers, running wash trades on their own coins etc etc. Fraud is rampant in this space and there is zero oversight from the norma…

Everything can be manipulated, but bitcoin compared to any other asset we know, is the only thing that cant be changed. You can create a new bitcoin but you cant create the same bitcoin and thats makes all the difference in the world.

1. The rules can (and have) been changed by whoever has commit permissions on the repo, they are not immutable.

2. The rules can also be changed with a simple fork if enough users are persuaded to move (Bitcoin Cash) - and somehow the price of both is preserved (how? why? who benefits?).

3. The price is provided by unaudited exchanges and can be manipulated by manipulating linked assets and collusion with exchanges, as Tether has shown.

This is a house of cards waiting to collapse.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#429

Post by adnzzzzZ » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 10:34 AM UTC

Jasper_ wrote: post #347

G3rn0ti wrote: post #298

Cryptos and Web3 are currently there where Web 1.0 was in the nineties. It was silly to order Pizza over the Internet like it was laughable listening to a baseball radio transmission over the internet instead using a … radio. LOL 20 years later everybody‘s ordering food over the internet while watching Netflix.

It wasn't silly to order Pizza over the internet. In fact, it was maybe the first example of a web order form on the world wide web [0]. And this is after the existing 20-year widespread success of pizza delivery by phone. I don't know why so many people willfully ignore history here. [0] https://seclists.org/interesting-people/1994/Aug/57

This is like saying it wasn't silly to order pizza using bitcoin 10 years ago. Obviously you can find examples of people doing it and people praising them for it, but it was clearly not the general feeling of the public at the time, just like it isn't the general feeling of the public with cryptos now.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#430

Post by ThomPete » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 10:36 AM UTC

lottin wrote: post #425

ThomPete wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blockchain governs the DIGITAL sphere and in there can actually enforce. People who are trying to combine crypto with physical assets are a shrinking number. Focus on digital and its absolutely enforcable, to an extent not even governments can accomplish.

Not at all, blockchains can't enforce intellectual property rights either. For example, how is a blockchain going to stop an individual from using unlicensed content on their website?

Thats not what is meant by it being enforcable.

You are confusing things here.

With enforcable, what is meant is anything that can be programmed into a contract and be executed will be executed (enforced).

That can as an example be someone raising a million dollars for a crypto game by offering 10000 tokens for 100$ each. The million dollars are going to be unlocked in phases. 50k for proof of concept, 250k for alpha etc. Each phase have to be approved by the toke holders. If they dont agree that the proof of concept is good enough they can vote the unlocking down and there is nothing the game developers can do about that. That is what is meant by enforable.