Daddy isn’t coming back • Hacker News Board

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#421

Post by mlac » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

mlac wrote: post #369

laputan_machine wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What world do you live in where an average person can afford this?

… and the security deposit and liability from the person absolutely trashing the place! Holy hell that’s a personal risk. I’m all for housing stability, but just blindly giving someone a place to stay without any additional support services when there are clearly mental health issues… well it’s a bold move Cotton. Let’s see if it pays off.

Actually the OP replied to another comment below, and I guess they did provide accommodations and it ultimately didn’t work out.

Sincerely, I hope that this person gets the help they need.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#422

Post by krumpet » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

cyberpunk wrote: post #173

krumpet wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alzheimers reduced my father to a lost shell of his former self, but I wouldn't trade any day I ever spent with him for anything. Regardless of the state he was in at the end, he was still my father and I loved every moment we had together. He was the gentlest, kindest, strongest and most thoughtful man I ever knew and that's exactly how I remember him. That's just my own opinion.

edit: Apologies, this is really personal stuff but I'm talking generically here -- please don't take any of the below as judgmental: I'm simply trying to work out my own feeling on the matter: I get you, but how would he have felt about that? I'm so, so uncomfortable with the idea of my kids having to look after me in such a condition that I hope they would understand that doing so is kind of selfish ... hmm I don't…

That is a fair point. What I can say is that his loss weighs most heavily on my own children who never really got to know their grandfather. However, even though he was on a long, slow decline, he was still around for them to make memories with. Those moments are invaluable and I feel confident my father would happily go through it all again to know his grandkids were able to get to know him, if only a little bit. We still laugh about some of his shenanigans when his mind wasn't quite right.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#423

Post by rainonmoon » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 10:08 PM UTC

kirrent wrote: post #192

rainonmoon wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd probably find a lot to like in the book Lost Connections by Johann Hari. The main thrust is the impact society has had on mental health, in contradiction to the notion that depression is merely a "chemical imbalance".

I'd steer clear of Hari. Having listened to an interview with him I found interesting I did a fair amount of digging into the sources of his claims. Some of his claims were known and fairly uncontroversial in the medical establishment but the manner he presented them, against some straw-man of medical practice, was a bit misleading (examples - https://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2018/jan/... ). Still,…

I always appreciate a good fact checking, thanks! I'll have to look into it more for myself, great counter-perspective. I'll add an anecdote about the book's effect re: the claims about brain chemistry: talking to the friend who recommended the book about Hari's claims to the ineffectiveness of medication, she said "Even if my medication only makes a few percent difference, for me it's the difference between killing myself and not." I liked that reading of Hari's book not as anti-medicine, but as an explanation for why people who've been ratcheting up their dosage over the years, as a lot of my friends have, still feel totally insane: medication can't fix the whole problem itself.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#424

Post by ncmncm » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 11:12 PM UTC

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #417

ncmncm wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am mystified that we are having this conversation. To me the central statement in my original posting was: > For validity, RCTs depend utterly on reliable sortative diagnoses So, are you saying you believe an RCT can demonstrate a fact when whichever medication is being tested addresses the actual condition of only a tiny fraction of the participants, and even exacerbates some of the others' various conditions? Suc…

> For validity, RCTs depend utterly on reliable sortative diagnoses Huh, that's a really good point (which I somehow missed in your original post). That being said, it's incorrect that it's essential for RCT's to function, they'll still work, but with an attenuation based on the actual treatable population. > Or, are you saying you know how to design the protocol for an RCT when you have no idea which, if any, of the…

OK, thank you.

Consider a pre-trial objective: "We will be testing this medication on patients who have already indicated that it helps with their affliction. Participants will be sorted into groups that get one of (a) a placebo, or (b) reduced, (c) increased, or (d) unchanged dosage relative to the dose they have reported to be effective enough relative to side effects." Such a trial could actually be useful, but good luck getting the epistemology sticklers to sign off on it.

Also, antidepressants characteristically have history-dependent effects. Often, suddenly going off one renders it ineffective if resumed. So good luck with the ethics.

Also: I would like to see the word "affliction" in more medical papers.

I hope you will find gruntling, in time.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#425

Post by strken » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 7:47 AM UTC

themacguffinman wrote: post #408

strken wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. If someone demonstrates a consistent determination to die, when asked at random times, and over a long enough time period to rule out episodic mental health issues, and they've made appropriate arrangements for their family, I don't think they should be stopped from killing themselves. I disagree with the claim that many suicides are like that, I don't think the suicide from the article was like that, and the wo…

Appreciate your honesty and consistency. Likewise, I think the phrase "mental health issue" does a lot of heavy lifting for you. I don't think many mental health issues disqualify you from making a self-respecting decision over your own body. Few truly want to impose such extended blanket restrictions on other life or death decisions like critical treatment-refusal, military action, many types of self-destructive beh…

Yeah, episodic is the differentiator for me in terms of what should be prevented. With someone suffering episodes of severe depression, there's a clash between what the individual wants while not suicidal vs while suicidal.

Intuitively I feel that it's like two different people are making decisions about the one body, and the finality of suicide means the suicidal part of someone is wiping out the future for both, and should thus be prevented.

Again, though, the majority of suicide victims aren't suicidal for large periods of their lives. I feel that in the cases where someone is only briefly suicidal during the worst troughs of mood, the suicidal 1% of a life would wipe out the non-suicidal 99%, which is a monumental loss to inflict.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#426

Post by ycombinete » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 8:04 AM UTC

anon_nd wrote: post #412

ycombinete wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ritalin always worked great for me, but immediately gave my brother debilitating OCD.

Do you have any thoughts on my view expressed above that stimulants allow one to focus... but if that focus is (mis)directed towards something negative it can cause bigger issues than it solves? I'm curious about what differed between you and your brother's situation. For instance, I still struggle with procrastination at work and avoiding starting tasks... I can often take my dose and then proceed to hyperfocus on s…

I agree. It’s the same problem for me. Starting tasks is the real problem. Even without stimulants, a task I’ve put off for two weeks is often finished in less than an hour. It’s a lesson I expect to keep learning until I am dead.

The pill can help you maintain interest in something, not start that thing. I don’t have an answer to this problem. I’m 34. I don’t take anything for my disorder anymore. Either tolerance builds up, or the novelty wears off and my intention to start things declined as a result. And I end up back where I started but now I’m taking drugs everyday.

On my brother. I think that he doesn’t have ADD. That his issues at school were unrelated, and Ritalin just made him more anxious and neurotic.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#427

Post by sneak » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 2:30 PM UTC

dehugger wrote: post #365

sneak wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suicide is a human right. Interfering with someone's basic right to self-determination is absolutely despicable, no matter how ill the person is.

In light of this idiotic take ("interfering is absolutely despicable no matter how I'll") I feel like I should share my own experiences with frequent suicidal impulses, and how thankful I am that someone was there and willing to help me, on many occasions. I'm bipolar, and when I was untreated I would frequently (as on every other day) spend hours locked in a doom-spiral of self hatred, incapable of breaking myself o…

> Whereas you would have just left me to irrevocably take my own life in response to temporary problem that had a medical solution readily available.

For the record, I never wrote, said, or claimed that, and your claim is inaccurate. Please refrain from making false claims about me.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#428

Post by liminal » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 2:39 PM UTC

derbOac wrote: post #261

Fr0styMatt88 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind me asking, is there anywhere I can read more about this aspect of the system? This comment seems really extreme and it's a perspective I haven't really seen anywhere else.

So speaking as someone who has worked in psychiatry and mental health care, I can say it's basically true. It's not the intent of those working in it, but I think like a lot of things it's sort of what has emerged through the system. I had a colleague, now retired, who was the president of state mental health associations, etc. who made the argument that most suicide treatment programs are really designed to protect…

>> My colleague's point was this: if saying X is totally unpredictive of Y in reality, why react so strongly to saying X? The reason is because it's not really about preventing Y -- you can't -- it's because it legally and morally absolves you of responsibility.

If it's actually unpredictive, then shouldn't committing someone -- taking full control of their life -- make the doctor more responsible for them and not less? Responsible for them not being able to work, pay their bills, etc. and ultimately making their life situation more precarious, thus increasing their mental stress.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#429

Post by varjag » Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 8:04 AM UTC

yupper32 wrote: post #398

varjag wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what the poster goes. Spreading FUD to dissuade people contact suicide hotline. Not every contrarian take makes sense even if it blows your mind on the first reading.

Do you think people deserve to know that the police may be called on them if they call a hotline? Do you think that people deserve to know that they can be involuntarily held if someone even thinks they're going to kill themselves? I'd rather make this known and push for laws to be changed. Because I'm telling you that a massive number of people don't reach out to people because of these (real, valid) fears.

All of that is patently untrue in jurisdiction I live. Suicide hotlines are anonymous here.

Even if it's true in the United States, it may or may not be as severe as the OP suggested. Could depend on the state or county or whatever. The OP write with position of authority that he lacks on a subject that is literally life or death.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#430

Post by animal_spirits » Sat, Nov 27, 2021, 8:15 AM UTC

Iefthandrule wrote: post #299

animal_spirits wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you make art? I don't know how it feels to lose a family member to suicide, but I do remember how it feels to feel nothing. I started making art... In reality I forced myself to make art. Doodling first, then drawing and sketching and more complicated designs. I learned that art is like exercising, but instead of building muscle I was building physical emotions, in a sense. I had to train myself to make something…

What a beautiful depiction of self-exploration. It would be interesting to hear more about how you get yourself to continue digging in such a state of mind.

I had to think about this for a moment. Finally a lyric from Kanye West came to mind that kept me going day after day. "When it feels like living is harder than dying, for me giving up is way harder than trying". I played this song on repeat, I don't know where I'd be without it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1SEEMkc-qw