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The latest campus cancellation is different

theatlantic.com

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Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#421

Post by snvzz »

tomerv wrote: post #309
prepend wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seemed like the nazi reference was appropriate though. In this case, the university system in Germany was ruined by a move away from merit toward an incorrect and abhorrent philosophy. I think that doesn’t mean that affirmative action = nazism. It means that focusing on things other than merit has negative consequences and should be avoided. A recent comedy, Death of Stalin, points this out on the micro level when…

It doesn't really matter if the nazi reference was appropriate or not, using nazism as a comparison point is taboo for any kind of serious discussion. Once you compare anything to nazism you pretty much forfeit the discussion, even if it's a valid comparison.

>Once you compare anything to nazism you pretty much forfeit the discussion, even if it's a valid comparison.

This is an extremely stupid statement, and we shouldn't support it by repeating it.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#422

Post by WalterBright »

klyrs wrote: post #355
bluescrn wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social media has completely transformed this type of protest. People who have nothing to do with the university can now join a 'cancel mob' to attack a political opponent on the other side of the world.

Oldsters remember when this was a slower process, where people would write angry letters. They would undertake letter-writing campaigns, persuading others to take up the literary torch. They'd write to newspapers and magazines, where "free speech" was subject to the gatekeeping editor. Shorter screeds would appear in classified ads, again, to be censored if the editor didn't want to print what you had to say. It's fa…

> Writing quality and wit has definitely declined

I concur. The skewering of Sarah Palin "I can see Russia from my house!" by SNL was brilliant. SNL's skewering of Trump just wasn't funny.

Edit: Ok, if you disagree, note that everyone recognizes the SNL "I can see..." quote. Any memorable ones from SNL's Trump skits?

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#423

Post by unclebucknasty »

whatshisface wrote: post #383
unclebucknasty wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...much intellectually deeper and ideologically broader than those supporting racial preferences. A medieval Catholic... Sure, if you narrow the topic of racial preferences down to the literal instantiation of exactly that mechanism, then broaden the topic of the Vietnam War out to historical philosophies of War in general, then of course the latter reads "intellectually deeper" and "broader". But, these are all ju…

I have no idea what people are meaning when they say "racial preferences" in this thread but the Vietnam war was objectively awful and gets more awful with every detail you learn.

Sure. But, not sure how to process that as a reply to my comment.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#424

Post by kjkjadksj »

ramraj07 wrote: post #168
civilized wrote: post #61

It is time for talented teenagers to stop going to illiberal institutions. Consider getting your education at a place with values you can respect. Mission-driven schools: this is your moment.

I agree but for a different reason: you’re probably gonna get a better education than in most of these football down in the goonies universities. If football is what drives the funding and the students guess what drives the priorities as well?

It can actually be good to go to a football school if its large enough. That wing of the university prints money to support all the other branches that otherwise would be starved of funding. Ironically, its probably disinterest liberal arts students who benefit the most from their school’s football program. Ohio State is very much a football school and it has great academics especially in engineering, business, cancer research, a national leader in agricultural sciences too, with brand new buildings all over its massive campus. Other public schools in the great lakes region that aren’t in the B1G ten football conference look like satellite campuses by comparison.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#425

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #377
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to imagine a legal approach that does not impermissibly infringe on the free association rights of all the various participants. The question is whether any other mechanism would be sufficient. If Twitter were interested, they could do something to inhibit the flow of the outrage mechanism, but there are strong free speech arguments against doing this. Also it is of course not in Twitter's own best interest. If…

It's Twitter. Free speech does not apply. Get this out of your heads. If you're in Twitters house you play by their rules.

Yes . . . that was my point. There is not a legislatable way to compel Twitter to stop this behavior without violating Twitter's and protestors' free speech rights.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#426

Post by bitwize »

You have to remember that one of the major activist groups in support of affirmative action is called, in full, the Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action, Integration & Immigrant Rights, and Fight for Equality By Any Means Necessary.

By Any Means Necessary.

There really is no way for a bureaucratic institution like a university to win against such a committed, devoted movement. If the university didn't "buckle", the activists would find a target higher up the chain to pressure to punish the university -- grant and endowment sponsors, that sort of thing. Get students to rally on or near the residences of the professors who approved the talk. Send activists to physically blockade the building where the talk is supposed to be given. And on and on. When nothing is off the table -- when there are "no bad tactics, only bad targets" -- there are plenty of fallbacks to employ if your first plan fails.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#427

Post by WalterBright »

freebreakfast wrote: post #307
motohagiography wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pervasive lack of backbone among individuals in institutions is key to this. The shunning and shaming tactics used by online mobs are a very particular form of human aggression. Speculating on a correlating factor among the people in these institutions who seem so consistently vulnerable to it may be itself, problematic, but it's as though the organizations are missing anyone with the instinct to challenge or defle…

The most memorable example of "lack of backbone" for myself was Evergreen State College president, George Bridges. There was a large protest in 2017. The administration met to discuss the situation. Students prevented the administrators from leaving the meeting room unless they had an escort to ensure the administrators came to a resolution. The president mentioned his need to use the restroom to one of the protest l…

If a person physically prevented me from going to the restroom, I'd press kidnapping charges.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#428

Post by Zigurd »

This is a mixed bag, as is MFE. Getting rid of legacies and sports admissions (and donor's kids) is good, but the supposed meritocratic admissions that are blind to disadvantaged students can be charitably described as naive. Bundling those goals together is also naive if it is not disingenuous.

As another commenter noted "Some cursory searches show that FIRE might not be as neutral as I thought they were." I am guessing I will find the same applies to MFE.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#429

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #425
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's Twitter. Free speech does not apply. Get this out of your heads. If you're in Twitters house you play by their rules.

Yes . . . that was my point. There is not a legislatable way to compel Twitter to stop this behavior without violating Twitter's and protestors' free speech rights.

No. I'm saying nothing that twitter can do would infringe on freedom of speech.

Freedom of speech means that the government cannot prevent people from saying something.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#430

Post by akomtu »

WalterBright wrote: post #427
freebreakfast wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most memorable example of "lack of backbone" for myself was Evergreen State College president, George Bridges. There was a large protest in 2017. The administration met to discuss the situation. Students prevented the administrators from leaving the meeting room unless they had an escort to ensure the administrators came to a resolution. The president mentioned his need to use the restroom to one of the protest l…

If a person physically prevented me from going to the restroom, I'd press kidnapping charges.

It's not gonna work. Those who organise this activity have enough influence to convince AG to ignore your case.
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