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Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

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Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#421

Post by KorematsuFredt »

Maarten88 wrote: post #340
KorematsuFredt wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PS: I am strong supporter of Gun rights and proud gun owner. I fully agree with anti-gun crowd that having vast majority of guns in hands of citizens (legally or illegally) leads to more deaths. USA's comparison with Angola is actually more serious than the numbers tell you because you need to realize that USA has far better medical response and doctors trained to handle gunshot wounds. So to truly compare Angola and…

> In my experience USA lot less corrupt than most other countries. Lobbying overall is a net good thing for a democratic society. You rightly mention lobbying and corruption together. But somehow you miss that they are on the same continuum. From my EU perspective lobbying in the US is corruption, as the lobbying comes with money and paid-for political promotion. The situation around guns itself is a clear example: a…

> From my EU perspective lobbying in the US is corruption, as the lobbying comes with money and paid-for political promotion.

People with money and influence will always try to impact law. In EU it happens through actual bribes which is far worse. (Pretty much like India). In USA an immigrant like me can join hands with 10K immigrants and find enough support in congress openly by hiring lobbiest to advocate for the cause I care about. That is how democracy should work.

It is easy to see lobbying as bad by taking examples you don't like but in reality it is a great example of how people can convince their representatives to pass right kind of laws, legally and with enough regulation. In most countries this happens to secret middleman and nights in shady hotels.

> a majority of US people is in favor of more limitations to gun rights

It is not clear if that is the case. Of course majority of people is irrelevant because this is not a mob rule. That is why we don't allow crowd in SF determine what people in Montana want. It is all fair game.

Secondly, people like me who care about guns care about it lot more to actually form lobbies. On other hand folks who dislike guns only talk about it but will not lobby or donate for the anti-gun causes.

I recommend this excellent video about why NRA despite with a shoe string budget is so much more influenced than many other lobbying groups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdt6Jj64TVU

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#422

Post by philwelch »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #339
philwelch wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is not that bad compared to other New World countries. From your link we see Brazil at 27, Mexico at 29, Argentina at 5, Uruguay at 12, Greenland at 5, Panama at 9, and Costa Rica at 11. Canada is the biggest outlier, but the US still has less homicide than even relatively nice New World countries. If you’re going to tout France’s low homicide rate of 1.2, I’d invite you to observe that Japan’s homicide rate i…

>The US is not that bad compared to other New World countries. Yeah, I'd add that France doesn't have a long, porous border with the developing world. Nor nearly as much heterogeneity in its population.

I'm not actually sure how accurate that is. France has an ethnically and religiously heterogeneous population, high levels of immigration from Africa, and open borders with the rest of the EU.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#423

Post by teakettle42 »

standardUser wrote: post #274
bm3719 wrote: post #106

Excellent. There's no reason defensive gun buyers should be demographically different from the general population. It's understandable that gun sales for hunting or other activities might show differences, but we all have the same personal security needs. Side note: I'm one of the people here with a large collection of firearms. One thing to realize when you see the statistic that the US has more firearms than people…

For decades I have lived deep in the heart of some of the densest cities in the country (SF and NYC). These are places with serious and obvious crime problems that I have seen up close and personal, day in and day out. Yet to me, despite these experiences, the entire concept of "personal security needs" involving firearms is absolutely absurd. It sounds like a Monty Python sketch. Silly to the point of absurdity. But…

You live somewhere with strict gun laws, and in your own words, serious and obvious crime problems.

You think the people living in much safer places have a viewpoint that’s “silly to the point of absurdity”.

Yet, they’re the ones living somewhere with much lower crime and murder rates.

How is this an argument for the efficacy of your preferred policies?

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#424

Post by mlboss »

chmod600 wrote: post #73

There's something admirable about the idea that a government would not take away all the guns. The idea that people should not have to give up all of their ability to fight. The idea that people should not be entirely dependent on police for their defense. And the idea that physically weaker people (often women) can defend themselves against the strong. Does this idea work? Surprisingly well. If you had to guess the…

Every time I read the story of gun violence in American school it send chills down my spine. As a parent you don't want to worry about shootouts at your kid's school. And this is totally preventable if Government bans guns.

I understand the idea that citizens need protection from government. But if fight really breaks out between government and citizens then there are weapons far powerful then guns that citizens don't have.

The whole gun debate is only happening because there are strong gun lobbyist in Washington. Gun manufactures makes sure that they can sell guns and make profit.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#425

Post by [deleted] »

philwelch wrote: post #268
sofixa wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

The US is not that bad compared to other New World countries. From your link we see Brazil at 27, Mexico at 29, Argentina at 5, Uruguay at 12, Greenland at 5, Panama at 9, and Costa Rica at 11. Canada is the biggest outlier, but the US still has less homicide than even relatively nice New World countries. If you’re going to tout France’s low homicide rate of 1.2, I’d invite you to observe that Japan’s homicide rate i…

[deleted]

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#426

Post by Taniwha »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #339
philwelch wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is not that bad compared to other New World countries. From your link we see Brazil at 27, Mexico at 29, Argentina at 5, Uruguay at 12, Greenland at 5, Panama at 9, and Costa Rica at 11. Canada is the biggest outlier, but the US still has less homicide than even relatively nice New World countries. If you’re going to tout France’s low homicide rate of 1.2, I’d invite you to observe that Japan’s homicide rate i…

>The US is not that bad compared to other New World countries. Yeah, I'd add that France doesn't have a long, porous border with the developing world. Nor nearly as much heterogeneity in its population.

Pretty sure that in total far more guns are moving south from the US than north into it

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#427

Post by redstripe »

cltby wrote: post #374
redstripe wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's admirable about it? This is just a fiction that you Americans tell yourselves about the next revolution. Name one, just one way, that ease of gun ownership has protected Americans from their government in a way that citizens of other western democracies have suffered? There is no scenario in which any citizen with a gun in any country defeats their government. Your gun will keep you safe about as well as your…

> There is no scenario in which any citizen with a gun in any country defeats their government Imagine writing this not one month after the Taliban wins its war against the US.

Fine. Perhaps I shouldn't have said any nation, but Afghanistan is not a modern nation state. It's a time warp back to some era 1000 years ago with poorly run government theater that only existed to keep the kleptocrats stealing from their wealthy benefactor.

Do you imagine some well armed coalition of militias in Idaho or wherever is going to be rampaging through the American countryside and declaring a new nation? I wonder if these guys hugged their rifles in their last moments: https://youtu.be/t9K0fhMCTGk?t=102 NSFW

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#428

Post by pengaru »

I no longer visit my out of state sister since she became a gun enthusiast who goes to the shooting range regularly for the "muscle memory", to use her own words.

It just didn't seem like a good idea anymore, considering my tendency to return home drunk in the wee hours on the weekends. Muscle memory, meet drunken brother repeatedly punching in the wrong alarm code @3AM, no thanks.

The dog was better.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#430

Post by throwaway0a5e »

enchiridion wrote: post #405
Maarten88 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my experience USA lot less corrupt than most other countries. Lobbying overall is a net good thing for a democratic society. You rightly mention lobbying and corruption together. But somehow you miss that they are on the same continuum. From my EU perspective lobbying in the US is corruption, as the lobbying comes with money and paid-for political promotion. The situation around guns itself is a clear example: a…

With regard to your gun control points, there is a bit of nuance you missed that people (like me, if I wasn’t trying to help you steelman your argument) will criticize. Specifically, there are already heavy restrictions on automatic weapons, which are basically never used in criminal acts. Every automatically gun in the US has to be registered with the federal government for $200 and a lot of paperwork. In effect it…

Automatic weapons were only ever rich people toys. Unless you've got a squad of buddies and one of them is laying down covering fire they're not very useful and they convert money into noise real fast.
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