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1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

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Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#421

Post by AndroidKitKat »

bgentry wrote: post #280
jl_agilebits wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi. I'm a feature developer for 1Password, and I want to clarify a few things. First of all, our decision to built the macOS app in Electron was absolutely not driven by VC money. For the past few years, we've been working on consolidating 1Password's business logic into a single Rust-powered core that could be shared across all our apps. This has many advantages: feature consistency across platforms, faster developm…

>Electron suited us perfectly, since we could write our UI code once and make it consistent across Linux, Windows, and Mac. This is the source of your mistake. Users don't desire to have the same UI across different OS environments, it's only an app's developers that care about that. Cross-platform UIs are inarguably a worse user experience than UIs tailored to the conventions and designs of each OS. A Mac app that d…

I wholly agree with this, I choose Macs and use basically exclusively "good" Mac apps since I want everything I use to just feel right. On the occasion I use Windows or Linux, I want the UX to feel akin to what other applications on those platforms use.

Kinda a random thought, but is it at all possible to build a native 1Password app using their API [1]? I haven't read Agile Bits' ToS, but I would be interested in working on / following a Mac-centric client.

[1]: https://support.1password.com/connect-api-reference/

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#422

Post by forrestthewoods »

nightski wrote: post #3

I haven't had a single bad experience with Bitwarden. I even pay for it now and still run it locally just to support them. Highly recommended if you don't want to be forced into 1Password's service.

Same. Left 1Password for Bitwarden and have zero regrets.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#423

Post by andrecarini »

gpanders wrote: post #314
andrecarini wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am cognizant of this risk, and assume it, because security is always a spectrum between Secure and Convenient. Absolutely. But also, in such setup, the security benefit of 2FA/OTP codes are negligible at best since there are no conditions under which only one factor could be compromised without also having the other factor leaked (assuming you're using unique passwords for each identity, which is the entire point…

> But also, in such setup, the security benefit of 2FA/OTP codes are negligible at best since there are no conditions under which only one factor could be compromised without also having the other factor leaked (assuming you're using unique passwords for each identity, which is the entire point of a password manager). Phishing and good ole fashioned human error are two methods by which a password can be leaked withou…

In such a setup where the second factor is a TOTP I would count on the attacker being successful at phishing that too.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#424

Post by tuxone »

Got 1Password 6 full license for OSX and loved it. Of course I bought also the Android app. Then switched to an iPhone and bought the app again, peanuts. Then I had to start using again PCs and bough the windows full license for 1P 7.

I still use 1P 6 on macOS even though the missing support for Safari sucks (that actually made me switch to Firefox!)

My point is, there is literally zero added value with the subscription, it’s like buying cars with loans, in fact by buying full licenses I saved money.

I hope that 1P 6 and 7 will last me as long as possible, I don’t see any alternative at the moment. IMHO all other options are less secure and/or less convenient.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#425

Post by aclsid »

sngz wrote: post #215
mynameisvlad wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that’s a completely valid choice to make! Some people use vim and emacs because they find Sublime too sluggish. But that doesn’t make VS Code “shit”. It’s pretty much the shining star of Electron done right.

> Electron done right that is a very low bar. VS code is still slow and eats up a ton of resources. not to mention I don't trust anything from microsoft. OP said electron = bad and you should be ashamed of using it because its helping propagate it's usage when its a cancer.

I'm with you on this one. During the end of the 90s there was a similar phenomenon for the exact same reasons, which was Java desktop apps, with their write once run anywhere motto. With the added insult that they had this awful non-standard UI most of the time. They eventually died down except for the corporate app world and things like JetBrains IDEs.

But now with Electron, which I don't like for the same reasons, as a friend once told me, allowed me to have some of my favorite apps running in Windows, Linux and Mac almost flawlessly with a good interface that finally the promise of Java was fully realized.

So while I would like people to follow more the Sublime Text approach, there is value in these Javascript based apps that lower the barrier of entry, provide widespread availability and are definitely easier to debug. Also sometimes I don't get to decide, since my org for instance makes it extremely convenient to stick with JetBrains stuff.

But hey, I'm the type of person that considered a Gentoo machine running Fluxbox far more useful than the very polished MacOS.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#426

Post by aclsid »

selykg wrote: post #135
jonpurdy wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently cancelled Evernote after 12 years of paying for it due to their new Electron client. I've been using 1Password since 2008 and I'll be doing the same thing. I have tolerated the UI regressions and even subscription with version 7, but Electron is just unacceptable for what was once an amazing Mac app that put Apple's apps to shame.

I hate Electron as much as the next guy, but man have I been enjoying Obsidian. I mention this only because it has changed the way I write notes and manage them and I've been through the path of Evernote > Apple Notes > Bear > Obsidian.

In my case I go for simplenote, but yeah same deal. If somebody creates the same experience in a less resource intensive framework I'm a in.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#427

Post by andrecarini »

staticassertion wrote: post #350
andrecarini wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am cognizant of this risk, and assume it, because security is always a spectrum between Secure and Convenient. Absolutely. But also, in such setup, the security benefit of 2FA/OTP codes are negligible at best since there are no conditions under which only one factor could be compromised without also having the other factor leaked (assuming you're using unique passwords for each identity, which is the entire point…

> (assuming you're using unique passwords for each identity, which is the entire point of a password manager) If you're doing this there's a very limited benefit to TOTP anyways.

Definitely. A Yubikey or another TPM-based auth would be a better choice. I just wish they were cheaper and more accessible...

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#428

Post by beefjerkins »

mirkules wrote: post #295
trimbo wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was 18, I wrote some shareware and asked for $10 from those who used and liked the program. Lots of nice people from all over the planet sent in some money, and sometimes with letters. Most often it was a thank you note. Sometimes people requested more features in return for paying the requested amount. And occasionally they'd tack on whatever extra they thought those features were worth to them. (That amount…

Subscription models make sense for something that needs to stay evergreen. Why does a password manager need a subscription? My password should never touch a 3rd party’s server, I don’t need extra features, I don’t need a login, I don’t need long-term or even short-term support. What ongoing development does a password manager have? Is it that buggy from the get-go to need constant updates?

Sure, a local-only password manager doesn't need a subscription, and solutions such as KeePassXC demonstrate this quite well (as a user of it myself!)

However, in the case of 1Password it's not just about being a password manager; it's also about syncing passwords between devices, staying on top of (sometimes rapidly!) changing standards between devices and browser extensions, and being aware of the evolving landscape of best security practices.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#429

Post by themacguffinman »

Karunamon wrote: post #121
leetcrew wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's reasonable to complain about the loss of the native app when one of the key selling points (imo) is the pleasant UI. I don't really understand the almost-automatic hatred of subscriptions. if an app has ongoing development that you benefit from, it seems entirely fair to pay a subscription. the fair alternative is a one time payment for a lifetime license with few patches priced in. I would probably pref…

The hatred comes from their proliferation. With what seems like damn near everything moving to a subscription model, it's more money out of my pocket for usually what amounts to rent-seeking (i.e, demanding more money, more often, whilst providing no additional value). That last bit I don't believe applies to 1Password, because there are certain things you can't do without some kind of centralization, and the article…

> what exactly does moving from a purchase to a subscription benefit me?

It keeps the vendor financially healthy, stable and willing to keep developing the stuff you use.

Would you want to dedicate your work into a product for meagre & sporadic standalone payments pressuring you to endlessly churn out marketable feature upgrades with little time for maintenance work just to barely make ends meet? No? Then why on earth do you expect other software vendors to do that?

Even Bitwarden pushes subscriptions.

I'd love to see how many developers who complain on HN about subscriptions actually make a living primarily from selling standalone software to consumers.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#430

Post by [deleted] »

l72 wrote: post #371
nightski wrote: post #3

I haven't had a single bad experience with Bitwarden. I even pay for it now and still run it locally just to support them. Highly recommended if you don't want to be forced into 1Password's service.

Is there a good command line client for bitwarden. I recently moved from keepass (using kpcli) to bitwarden (so I can share passwords with my spouse), but am so far, very unhappy with the command line tools. The official command line tool is way too clumsy. I've tried rbw and rbw-fzf which are ok. rbw doesn't let me view all properties of an entry (attachments, notes), and rbw-fzf has issues if things have spaces in…

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