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Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

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Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#421

Post by headmelted »

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

This.

A 200% value-added tax on fossil fuels that rises by 10% every year would provide the capital.

EDIT: To clarify, this is not a suggestion to raise capital from the tax as much as it's to raise capital from the use of fossil fuels. It's a suggestion for an increasingly punitive financial cost to force behavioural changes.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#422

Post by pjerem »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #386
belorn wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were a study done in Sweden a few years ago that looked at the question about an individuals actions and the corresponding CO2 production. No car > skipping flight > buy green energy > Get a electric car > diet. https://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/article/four-lifestyle-choi...

Of course the biggest emitters are industrial. Anything we attribute to individuals pales in comparison to the transport industry, production of goods like steel and concrete, resource extraction, power generation and production of consumer goods. Telling consumers to cut back on X is essentially passing the back and making consumers feel bad without actually addressing the bulk of emissions.

Aren’t industrials working to sell things to individuals ?

You are the customer of the transports industry, you live in a concrete and steel building, you buy the devices made with extracted lithium or gold, power generators are running for every one of those … and for heating your house.

The problem is difficult because no one is responsible, but our entire civilization as such is responsible.

Yeah, we could probably make marketing people accountable for over consumerism. But they are just materialization of the ugly side of our civilization.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#423

Post by geewee »

Chris2048 wrote: post #413
jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

And if a country doesn't, are we willing/able to go to war? Given that some countries will burn down forests that pollute their airspace, and the airspace of their neighbours it's pretty likely there will be those that refuse the tax.

You smack import taxes on them that correspond to the carbon tax that should have been + 10%. Then they can either do the carbon tax or have their exports made much, much more expensive.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#424

Post by 1337shadow »

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Each human being emits 25 tons of CO2 per year just by breathing, should the businesses also be taxed based on their number of employees? People often forget the good parts about the little CO2 increase from the past century, I care a lot about environment (I'm a countryside person) but CO2 - many people forget it is the food of the plants that we need to eat - just takes all the place in the environmental debate and what I think are more important matters such as waste reduction, ocean cleaning, recycling, durable/fixable hardware... I'm hoping for people to do a cost/benefit analysis of the CO2 situation and start thinking rationally and work on what is actually bad for us, not just CO2 greenwhashing bs.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#425

Post by Sebb767 »

drclau wrote: post #156
Xplune13 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and I don't think people are going to wake up till everyone faces the consequences of climate change in their personal lives, which is quite honestly just sad.

There were people infected with Covid, in hospital, which still denied that Covid is real. Granted, those extremes are rare, but it shows how resilient in their beliefs deniers are. I think you are quite optimistic in thinking people will wake up. Nevertheless, we don’t need everyone to accept the reality, for us to be able to take action as a civilization.

Yet we started the lockdown when most people did not even know a single infected person. Don't extrapolate from the worst examples.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#426

Post by 1propionyl »

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

> The greatest hope I see for the future of humanity is the incentive for a brilliant mind/leader to become the next Bezos/Musk via climate change technology

> ...isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality.

I don't mean for this to sound too critical but how do you square these two concepts?

The idea of a great inventor/scientist/theorist is to me kind of obsolete. It existed in a time of much more low-hanging fruit but today most scientific/theoretic progress is slow and the collective result of many groups slow, focused, and methodical work. Even before, even the greats stood on the shoulders of myriad giants.

The idea of hoping for a "great leader" who is solely capable of "fixing" things is to my mind a very concerning and alarming idea.

Even if you may not think that... the idea that "one good idea" is enough to solve our problems immediately, or even just quickly enough, feels like escapism to me. No matter how good of an engineering solution is achieved there will be a slow and painful process of rolling it out fraught with cultural and political questions. It doesn't behoove us to push that off, even if the engineering questions feel more essential. It's an inevitable problem. We should consider it earlier rather than later.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#427

Post by ciconia »

This is not only a question of transitioning to "green" energy. It's also a question of values. For me, humanity is at a cross roads, all possibilities are open, and we need to choose, individually and collectively: short term growth or long term sustainability, consumerist delirium or happy sobriety [1], mission-to-mars escapism or this-planet-is-our-only-home realism.

[1] http://www.lejournalinternational.info/en/pierre-rabhi-inter...

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#428

Post by flat-bird »

clydethefrog wrote: post #227
roguesupport wrote: post #172

I know this will just haul in the downvotes, but I just want to point out the EVERY IPCC report, EVER, has been dead wrong. Every single one of them.

You are right, but your premise is probably different. They were indeed wrong. They were too conservative. Some historical perspective: 1990: 1st Assessment Little observational evidence for a detectable human influence on climate 1995: 2nd Assessment The balance of evidence suggests a discernible human influence on global climate 2000: 3rd Assessment Most of the observed warming over the last fifty years is likely*…

> extreme climate events, including heat waves, heavy rainfall, and droughts, more frequent and severe

None of that is true. Not more frequent, not more severe. Not hurricanes, either, nor floods. Nor is loss of life due to any of those things increasing.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#429

Post by winslett »

Chris2048 wrote: post #413
jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

And if a country doesn't, are we willing/able to go to war? Given that some countries will burn down forests that pollute their airspace, and the airspace of their neighbours it's pretty likely there will be those that refuse the tax.

Exactly. He said “collective action” won’t work, then called for “collective action” among governments. In these thought analysis, an self-serving person is a good proxy for how any government will behave.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#430

Post by spodek »

More science doesn't hurt, but we lack leadership. Scientists are trained to research, report, and expand knowledge, but not the social and emotional skills to influence behavior.

If we want other people to change, we have to recognize that information, however accurate and valuable, and telling people what to do is of limited effect. If we want different outcomes we have to do different things.

Yes, still research, but don't expect it to change people's behavior. There are things that do, more like listening, role models, vision, empathy, stories, images, and what leaders do. I work on creating role models, stories, and vision.

I started my podcast, originally Leadership and the Environment, now This Sustainable Life https://joshuaspodek.com/podcast, to bring leaders and leadership to the environment. Maybe it's for you, maybe not, but it's what I wish was around before I started acting. The first episode https://shows.acast.com/leadership-and-the-environment/episo... describes the strategy.

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