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An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

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Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#421
post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should also be noted the second system sends no images to Apple or is reviewed by Apple employees in any way. You are directly contradicting Apple's public statement: > Apple manually reviews all reports ( https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni... ) Moreover, it was found that in US v. Ackerman that the NCMEC's inspection of a user's private email was an unlawful violation of their fourth amen…

I was referring the second system mentioned by the parent. NOT the CSAM system. Conflating these systems has been huge issue with the random articles coming out. They are distinct. From the GP > The second, independent, system, is a machine learning model which runs on-device to detect sexually explicit photos being received on Messages.app. This system is designed to be run on children’s phones. The system will hide…

I fully agree that some people are conflating the imessage nudity detection to the detriment of the public dialog. Though I think there are also problems with imessage, including the fact that minors are not completely devoid of civil rights relative their parents, that the same mechanisms could be easily retargeted against adults (with some dictatorships taking on the role of the parent accounts), and that doing so normalizes our children to a pervasive electronic surveillance... I think it is a substantially different matter and one of less concern.

I don't think I agree on the "sort of"--

It is unambitious the effective law in the US, established in court, that if the tech company scanning is a product of government coercion than the scanning cannot be performed without a warrant.

In Ackerman Google went out of their way to testify that they were not being coerced by the government, but were scanning out of their own commercial interest (to avoid a public loss of reputation for hosting child porn on their systems).

If Apple wants to defend their failure to act in their user's best interest, they need to do so directly by calling out the governments coercion. Or otherwise, they ought to admit (as google did) that no meaningful government coercion exists and that their actions at the users expense are driven by their commercial interests.

There are two central possibilities: That the searching is coerced, in which case it is an unlawful violation of the user's fourth amendment rights, or that it is not coerced, in which case it is an activity that Apple is freely engaging with for the benefit of their commercial interests.

In either case-- facilitating an unlawful invasion of user's constitutional rights on behalf of the government, or voluntarily invading the privacy of their users for commercial benefit Apple is ethically in the wrong.

I don't doubt that this dichotomy, if widely recognized, would put apple in a difficult position-- but that's a cost of doing business.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a powerful tool, it's more akin to a rudimentary hash check. It's not going to match photos that aren't already known to authorities. And any time a user is flagged, the material in question is sighted by an Apple employee before a decision is made whether to forward it onto the relevant authorities.

Ok, so what stops the CCP from submitting hashes of photos of the "tank man" to this hash set? And then jailing all those reported to possess it?

Because when the Apple employee who reviews the flagged accounts sees pictures of Tank Man and not CSAM, they won't forward them on.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made the switch a couple months ago and its harder than you think. There is a lot of convenience you take for granted in the smartphone age.

What did you switch to?

A nokia dumbphone

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#424
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NCMEC's database already contains non-CSAM. What you suggest is not theoretical, it's reality today. I really think people are missing this point. NCMEC's database is not an infallible, audited and trustworthy source of despicable imagery. It's a mess contributed to by thousands of companies, individuals and police. It's also so intertwined with the FBI that I don't think it's truly correct to call NCMEC independent,…

> What you suggest is not theoretical, it's reality today. As others have stated, do you have proof? Inside knowledge of this supposed reality? Even some major news publication with no direct evidence would be credible enough to support this statement.

The database contents are a secret. There are no news articles about it. However, I do know for a fact the database has serious problems (I'm not speculating).

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#425
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NCMEC's database already contains non-CSAM. What you suggest is not theoretical, it's reality today. I really think people are missing this point. NCMEC's database is not an infallible, audited and trustworthy source of despicable imagery. It's a mess contributed to by thousands of companies, individuals and police. It's also so intertwined with the FBI that I don't think it's truly correct to call NCMEC independent,…

Can you provide more context for this? I could definitely believe this possibility but it’s a big claim to make.

I know you mean well but people who know how bad the database is also can't tell you how they know, because the database is cloaked in secrecy for obvious reasons.

All I can say is that I'm not speculating, I know for a fact the database is as broken as I say it is.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did you switch to?

A nokia dumbphone

With at least a billion baseband exploits. Smartphones are bad, but switching back to feature phones is arguably worse in these regards.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so what stops the CCP from submitting hashes of photos of the "tank man" to this hash set? And then jailing all those reported to possess it?

Because when the Apple employee who reviews the flagged accounts sees pictures of Tank Man and not CSAM, they won't forward them on.

Unless their business is threatened

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's no problem. It's just a drawn out power grab with a weak pretext. In 2018 tech companies reported over 45 million images of CSAM, which was double the amount that was reported the year before.[0] The next year the number of reports went up to 60 million.[1] I wouldn't expect everyone to agree on the proper response to the rapid growth of child-abuse imagery online, but I don't think the problem itself should…

I couldn't find anywhere in the NY article that described that these efforts these companies are doing is leading to less child porn being created. Is that true? Everything I read and searched for wanted to make it sound like child porn and sexual abuse of children was skyrocketing - nothing concrete about the number of victims per capita per year in the USA or what not. And - of course - it made it sound like this e…

Yeah, that article definitely reads like a thinly-veiled scare piece.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#429
post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nokia 3310 does not support 3G. It’s a 2G (GSM or TDMA) device.

The 2017 edition exists in 2G, 3G and even 4G versions.

Oh, I’d forgotten that they made a new phone with the same model number in 2017.

Even Nokia’s website seems confused about it because it claims the 2017 3310 is a 2G (“GSM: 900/1800 MHz“) device. That can’t be true of even a low-end 2017 device. It wouldn’t even work on many modern networks without at least having 3G!

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't deny the system has some benefits, they just aren't benefits I will gladly give up my own freedom for nor the freedom of my fellow citizens. I don't want to do away with anything; I just want "you" out of my devices, where "you" don't belong anyway and where you haven't been up to this point. (Well, you still aren't there because I don't use an iPhone, but hopefully the point is clear.) Also note that I'm not…

Sorry, to clarify, you do in fact support Apple running the exact same scans on their server side CPUs? A situation that has the exact same effects on society...? Your only concern then, is with a future authoritarian policy of your own imagination?

>A situation that has the exact same effects on society...?

Of all your (mis)leading questions, this one sticks out the most as being of particularly bad faith.

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