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‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

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Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#421

Post by Matticus_Rex »

rytcio wrote: post #310
stemlord wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But part of the value of WFH is the ability to lower work-time to something even less than one third. I've always found it extremely difficult to foster worthwhile relationships and have truly fulfilling fun in a corporate PC environment anyway.

Well, that's the other side of it. If a company is paying you for 40hrs a week, they want to make sure they're getting their moneys worth. Of course you can argue about how employees, despite being "in the office" are only productive for 2 or maybe 3 hours of their 8 hour shifts. But that's now how management sees it. Having a person visibly in a chair makes management feel like they are getting their money's worth.…

Ultimately, at the market level pay rates are tied to productive value. We have a theoretical assumption of 40h/week, but almost everyone understands that it's fictional (and more people are learning that). Most people who are going home and getting the same work done in 2-3 hours aren't working less -- they're working more efficiently, or doing fewer other things (e.g. chatting at the water cooler).

For many types of thought work, 3-4 hours is pushing it anyway; the default assumption of 8 hours doesn't make sense with the heterogeneity of what different types of work actually entail.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#422

Post by jackson1442 »

nklop wrote: post #409
jackson1442 wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inverse is also true- I've found it significantly harder to get to know my coworkers over Zoom at my current shop than I have in the past. Granted, this is my first "office job," but at the jobs I've worked in the past it's been super easy to meet other people and get to know each other. I get that some people want to put their head down and grind for 8 hours a day then move on with their lives, but I tend to pre…

I think the future for a lot of businesses will still be in-office. Having the team in one room has its own benefits. Plenty of others will be remote since that also has benefits. A lot more will be somewhere in-between. I think that will be more common. 100% remote won't suit a lot of businesses. But 30% of the time? Or 20%? For plenty of people this won't seem weird. Spending two days per week working from home won…

Exactly. My ideal setup would be a flexible week where I could come in between 2-4 days each week and work from home the rest. Maybe have everyone on the team in on a specific day and the rest are up to me.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#423

Post by Matticus_Rex »

tgragnato wrote: post #299
ItsMonkk wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I experienced all of these to a much better degree during college. Are you sure you don't just want to live in a city that provides plenty of shared spaces? Relying on your employer for these items seems unwise.

Dating at work is especially a bad idea. Things could be perfect, but (with high probability) a relationship will abruptly end and managing every social aspect can be difficult.

Dating at work can be a bad idea. But also, a very large proportion of the married people I know met their spouses at work.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#424

Post by breatheoften »

dcolkitt wrote: post #15

I’m honestly perplexed what the FANGs are even thinking in being so aggressive about pushing an end to WFH. Sure it could all work out fine for them. Maybe employees will grumble for a bit, then settle back into office life. But maybe it wont’t . There’s a very real possibility that you lose a non-negligible percent of your staff (disproportionately the most talented who have other options), handicap your ability to…

I wouldn't be surprised if it's not largely driven by personal profit motive/asset exposure of the decision maker class ... executives, boards, and upper management at such companies are nearly uniformly composed of wealthy individuals who probably have diversified investment portfolios including tons of commercial and residential real-estate interest in places like the Bay area ... what happens to real estate prices in the bay if tech becomes remote? Personally I can't imagine choosing to live in San Francisco in the first place -- but how many of the folks who did for work, then left during the pandemic to live in more livable places, would really want to go back if given the option not to ...?

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#425

Post by [deleted] »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #42

In my experience at least talking to some younger people there is a clear dichotomy: despite all the talk about Gen Z being "digital natives", people new in their career are much hungrier to get back into the office because they don't yet have good career networks built up and they're eager for mentorship. It is older, or at least more established workers who are less keen on that. I don't think FAANGs will have any…

[deleted]

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#426

Post by tonfa »

fatnoah wrote: post #419
dcolkitt wrote: post #15

I’m honestly perplexed what the FANGs are even thinking in being so aggressive about pushing an end to WFH. Sure it could all work out fine for them. Maybe employees will grumble for a bit, then settle back into office life. But maybe it wont’t . There’s a very real possibility that you lose a non-negligible percent of your staff (disproportionately the most talented who have other options), handicap your ability to…

> I’m honestly perplexed what the FANGs are even thinking in being so aggressive about pushing an end to WFH. WARNING: ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE I manage a team of 12 people at a FAANG. One team member just quit working entirely until offices open again. Any information about offices opening is immediately pounced on and celebrated. While most folks have stated that they enjoy working from home, a few others hate it. Intere…

Same context, same anecdote here.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#427

Post by tazjin »

kybernetikos wrote: post #116
gaws wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m honestly perplexed what the FANGs are even thinking in being so aggressive about pushing an end to WFH. A lot of people want to work for FAANG. If a current employee resigns because of WFH policies, those companies can likely find a replacement who is more receptive to returning to the office.

The pattern I've observed is that younger and more junior people want to work in the office, and older, more senior people with established networks, family life and nice accomodation with a home office are more likely to appreciate working from home. This means that if you lose a lot of people because you start being stricter about working from home, then you'll probably disproportionately lose the senior people who…

I'm at a FAANG and for any of these categorisations that I think about I can immediately come up with enough counterexamples (across age, marital status, role, ...) that I don't believe there's any easily pinpointed uniform grouping.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#428

Post by klipklop »

yupper32 wrote: post #316
klipklop wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it's N=1, but I worked more than 40 hours every single week when I was at a FANG. I used to laugh at all the perks because who actually had the time to use most of them other than interns. Times I used a climbing wall or nap pod: 0 In the end even the free lunch was annoying. (Yes I am going to complain about "free" food.) It just lead to short lunches where people go back to their desk as soon as they could. I…

See I was the opposite. I had no time as an intern but have plenty of time as a full timer. It seems like it's almost completely self-inflicted if someone doesn't have time as a full timer (at the 2 Big-N tech companies I've been at). I didn't have time as an intern because I wasn't confident and felt I needed to prove something. Now, many years into it, I know I can work my 40 hour weeks, enjoy the perks for what th…

I agree with you there about some interns being very busy. I do remember interns that had a lot of self imposed pressure to perform. If they even had say a minor issue with their work issued laptop they would be in a panic because of the time lost.

Also totally agree with you not having to work so many hours, but this is exactly why they love the college grad pipeline. So many fresh workers with something to prove.

The problem with nothing stopping you from leaving campus for lunch is that it's hard to convince your work-buddies to join you. Free is very compelling to some. And all your co-workers plan their meetings around this truncated lunch break.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#429

Post by randcraw »

bhub wrote: post #343
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #42

In my experience at least talking to some younger people there is a clear dichotomy: despite all the talk about Gen Z being "digital natives", people new in their career are much hungrier to get back into the office because they don't yet have good career networks built up and they're eager for mentorship. It is older, or at least more established workers who are less keen on that. I don't think FAANGs will have any…

I’m 45 and have been working partially remote for 4 years and fully remote since the pandemic. I really enjoy working from home. Spending more time with family and finding a good work/life balance and not having to commute are great perks. I have recently started a new job and was interviewed and onboarded entirely remote. The process was fine and in the future I am not required to be in the office a lot either. Howe…

Assuming your kids are in HS now, and will depart for college soon, it'll be interesting to see how you like working from home when your home occupancy drops to only two (or to one, if your SO is often away).

I'm a soloist, and I've found WFH to be a mixed bag in the past 16 months. I love that I can set up my home workspace exactly as I'd like it. But I very much miss routine social interactions and don't care much for the daily isolation.

If I could return to an office/cube, I think I'd prefer that. But alas, my clueless F100 employer insists we IT-types occupy an open space without personal- or group- reserved seating, so I'll rarely be able to find or sit with anyone I know. NOT something I'd prefer.

Perhaps the exodus of those seeking greener pastures will include me too.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#430

Post by thatfrenchguy »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #42

In my experience at least talking to some younger people there is a clear dichotomy: despite all the talk about Gen Z being "digital natives", people new in their career are much hungrier to get back into the office because they don't yet have good career networks built up and they're eager for mentorship. It is older, or at least more established workers who are less keen on that. I don't think FAANGs will have any…

Can’t replace senior engineers with a bunch of college grads though ;-)
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