Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces • Hacker News Board

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#421

Post by dalbasal » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

tootie wrote: post #22

ostenning wrote: post #6

Here is a classic case of someone conflating the state of Israel and Jewish people and lumping it all together. Plenty of Jewish people that live both inside and outside of Israel are critical of the state. People can be critical of the state of Israel, but they should not be antisemitic. His comments are offensive for this reason.

Being Jewish is also multi-tiered because it's associated with both a religion and an ethnicity. I'd love to popularize being thought of Ashkenazi and not Jewish. I don't have a familial bond with Israel for probably 17 centuries and I don't really care if I ever did. My culture is more strongly associated with Eastern Europe and we were run out of town on a rail 100 years ago.

Ashkenazi is just an old hebrew word for German. If you strip away both Germany (the HRE, more specifically), and Judaism then the term doesn't have much meaning. At least, not as an identity that people have assumed historically.

Ashkenazi Jews before the war just called themselves Jews, with secular emancipationists often appending nationality.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#422

Post by throwusawayus » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

lacksconfidence wrote: post #363

throwusawayus wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Jewish, and I personally found the post to be offensive and anti-semitic. Israel is not my "homeland". I've never been to Israel, let alone lived there. My parents have never been to Israel. You'd have to go back over 2000 years to find an ancestor of mine who lived in Israel. I have no connection whatsoever with the actions of the Israeli government. So if you attribute their actions to me, simply because I am J…

Thanks for the commentary, it's a useful perspective. Perhaps it depends on many things, but i feel like this post is not attributing these actions to you, in any way. My reading of the actual actions being criticised in that there is no way the author could mean anything other than the jewish state of israel. Working backwards from there, it's clear to me that any reference to jew is simply because AIPAC and western…

Among other blatantly offensive things, he directly said "If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself." Certainly sounds to me like he's attributing these actions to me and all other Jewish people.

Stop blaming "the media". If the head of diversity of one of the largest corporations in the world doesn't understand the difference between a Jewish person and an Israeli, they are not qualified for their position.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#423

Post by globular-toast » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

Gunax wrote: post #39

dalbasal wrote: post #17

Somewhat tangential, but who is the right kind of person for a diversity job? What does a job well done look like? Changes in hiring? Changes in company culture? I'm skeptical of roles with a "my job is to care about X" kind of definition. That includes, for example, "customer advocate" and similar, especially someplace as complicated as google. I don't think they can have much success beyond the surface level. EDIT:…

The purpose of the role is to be able to show that you have a diversity officer. Whether or not that actually helps diversity, or helps at all--is secondary.

So it's a bullshit job. I think the closest of Graeber's 5 categories [0] would be a "goon", ie. they are only there because other companies have one.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#424

Post by busterarm » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

Redoubts wrote: post #413

busterarm wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was one of the most heinous, blatantly bigoted screeds I'd read in quite a long time. There isn't anything defensible about it.

Does mild criticism shake you to your core, or something?

I'm not Jewish first of all, but to categorize the character of an entire group of people based on their birth/religion is the definition of bigotry.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#425

Post by nazca » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

sanity31415 wrote: post #197

nazca wrote: post #37

Slightly shocking that he didn't get fired. (yet?) They fired Damore for writing an email that was tone-deaf, insensitive, but largely supported by research. Bobb goes on a clearly antisemitic rant, and just gets reassigned. Is Google inconsistent, or has their policy on how to deal with these things changed over the past few years?

> They fired Damore for writing an email that was tone-deaf, insensitive, but largely supported by research Damore was asked for his feedback on Google's diversity policies, and that's exactly what he provided. Most of Damore's critics haven't actually read his memo[1], but rather formed an opinion based on the character assassination campaign against him, a campaign his employer publicly sided with. Over the 4 years…

> Damore was asked for his feedback on Google's diversity policies, and that's exactly what he provided.

> Most of Damore's critics haven't actually read his memo[1], but rather formed an opinion based on the character assassination campaign against him, a campaign his employer publicly sided with.

I completely agree, but in a corporate setting one can be truthful, accurate, have good intent, and yet still be tone deaf and insensitive. The bar for insensitive is very low in this context.

I think with a fair and honest reading of his letter & the context that it came up in, its clear that he was trying to contribute in a positive way to the discussion & effort.

This is why the inconsistency between these two cases is so remarkable. Antisemitism, even if from years ago, and not related to company business, is pretty damning (esp for someone leading D&I efforts). Meanwhile, an attempt, albeit executed in a politically naive way, to positively contribute to a discussion led to a firing & character assassination.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#426

Post by pessimizer » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:04 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #38

I really wish we could seperate people's private and professional lives. This guy in his private life wrote some nasty blog posts. That shouldn't impact his professional life. Nor vice versa. This blog post isn't sufficiently against the law to end up with him in prison. Yet this is a case of extrajudicial punishment. Unless there is any evidence of him bringing that thinking into his work, he shouldn't be punished.

You can't be openly racist in your private life, and have it not be a problem in your professional life managing and hiring people at a job. The idea that you think it shouldn't is weird. If I think that social netowrks are garbage that should be regulated out of existence and their operators jailed (in my private life, on my blog), should it affect my job at Facebook?

What if I believe in my public private life that Russia should rise up and destroy the west for its decadence and weakness - should it affect my job in the CIA?

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#427

Post by xputer » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:04 PM UTC

cratermoon wrote: post #232

> Google announced it's removing its global lead on diversity strategy and research from his post after it was discovered he'd made antisemitic comments in a past blog post. That post is not anti-semitic, it's anti-Zionism.

"If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself." Excuse me? If this is not clearly antisemitic, I wonder what is.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#428

Post by stefan_ » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:04 PM UTC

JeremyNT wrote: post #393

> As repugnant as his past anti-semitic rant was, people change and sometimes say and do stupid things. In a sane world this guy would not have been removed from his position and Damore would not have been fired. Instead we could have had a conversation to win hearts and minds, but today it is all about getting scalps, witch hunts and over-reaction. What we are currently doing sends people underground which radicaliz…

He typod Israeli as Jew? Geez, quite the common mistake these days.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#429

Post by xg15 » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:05 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #397

loveistheanswer wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Growing to overcome past problems is not sufficient. Their assumption is moreso that we cant grow to overcome past problems. So the only way to build themselves up is to tear others down. Thats why the popular "anti-racism" philosophy is so antithetical to and ignorant of the lives and philosophies of many of the greatest civil rights leaders such as Frederick Douglass, Booker T Washington, and MLK.

"Their" Who are they? The people who believe racism exists?

Do you believe racism can be overcome?

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#430

Post by javagram » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:05 PM UTC

sterlind wrote: post #184

He also wrote a blog post in which he confesses being homophobic: https://web.archive.org/web/20210603012214/https://www.kamau... I was confused about why Google said "LGBTQ+ community" in addition to Jewish community, and I think that's it.

Interesting to read that post, which is clearly pro-gay, and contrast with gay marriage referendums in the 2012 election which barely passed with around 47% of voters opposed (and of course Prop 8 had won in california just a few years earlier).

If that post were criteria for firing around half or more of the American population could also be fired if they had made the mistake of recording their opinions online or in written form before 10 years ago.