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Why Russians do not smile (2002)

chicagomaroon.com

421–430 of 502 posts

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly how "How are you?" is meant in American culture. It's not fake; greetings are culturally determined and especially the most common greeting phrases in any culture should not be treated literally but instead as part of a ritual exchange. "How are you?" "I'm well, and you?" "Great, thanks." It's just a ritualistic exchange.

See also the English upper-class ritual introductory exchange: How do you do? To which the correct response is: How do you do?

[deleted]

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#422
post #414
post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you downvote me for explaining why the language used by an old woman is not indicative of how things are today (or have been for a while even). (Though, in her case, in kmarc's example, the usage of the longform makes sense regardless.) Apart from that, we discussed German terms, not American ones. And, as explained, in German the discussed greetings are actually taken rather literally. At least I believ…

Taken literally? Well, then for "Grüss Gott" I would have to literally believe in god, then die and be lucky enough to go to heaven and greet god there (provided I'd get an audience). I think greetings are a meaningless formality anywhere, just learn them and the expected answers by heart and ignore the meaning.

Please re-read what I wrote. The sentence in question: "And, as explained, in German the discussed greetings are actually taken rather literally."

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#423

Estonian here. At Skype (10+ years ago) I observed, that members of large cultures (American, British, Hindu etc.) had real trouble adjusting to the predominantly Estonian-based engineering culture. Probably because they had never had to adjust, commonly people adjust to _their_ culture as it tends to dominate large organizations. But once they did make an honest attempt, that was always most welcomed and gained them…

> A Hindu pm had the habit of sitting next to developers while they worked

Some of us do this. Many don't. I don't like touching others especially in a work environment. It is definitely not a "hindu" thing, so much as an Indian thing.

I would chalk it up to lack of social awareness and no concept of space and personal boundaries. But, I don't think within our societies it is a bad thing.

However, with enough cultural trainings and awareness learnings, we do better at this when we interact with other cultures. The company I work for has a lot of documentation on this for almost all cultures.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#424

Plenty of contribution already,so I'll just add a personal anecdote. Some years ago I happened to have some beers with a Latvian Russian,who lived here, in London. He tells us that he doesn't get the Brits. He just doesn't understand the reasoning in some situations. I ask to elaborate. He says: last year, I had a pretty serious trauma and ended up in a hospital. It's so bad, pain, lots of tests,etc. And I'm pretty f…

Russians are so extreme. Even though my favourite professors at Waterloo in Canada were Russian, it wasn't until I learned some basic Russian that I finally got over the typical view of them drilled into people by Hollywood. Your run of the mill Russian is honest about their feelings. Not honest about the facts, no, they can cheat on an insurance filing just fine. But that coldness that so many of them seem to have i…

>> Your run of the mill Russian is honest about their feelings. Not honest about the facts, no, they can cheat on an insurance filing just fine. But that coldness that so many of them seem to have is often just an outer shell. Once one of them trusts you and gets to know you they're so warm and intense about their love for you. So excited to show you something dear to them. Even devoted enough to learn a new language just to speak to you, even if they're a senior[0]. It doesn't mean the relationship always survives, because that intensity is still there when they're angry, but the highs are so high.

I'm not a great fan of serious literature, but I've read a bit here and there and I think the above should be blindingly obvious to anyone who's read at least as little as I have (basically, Crime and Punishment, three or four pages from The Idiot and Gorsky's The Flaming heart of Danko). Or, anyone who's listened to the music (hello, Chaikovsky? Black Swan? You wanted feelsies?) or watched the movies (Tarkovsky) etc.

I think in the past the literature and the art in general would have been where Western people learned about Russians (and everyone else not in the West, also, but the Russians have a lot of literature). It's a bit of a shame if this has really been replaced by tinny stereotypes promulgated by Hollywood.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#425
post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you assuming/implying that the people who say "let me know if you need anything" don't actually mean it? Because I don't believe that's generally the case, especially if they're actually friends and not just random acquaintances. I don't personally say that sentence outside of a work context; usually I would say "call me if you need to talk", but I won't take proactive action unless I believe my friend either wan…

Let me try to explain - I've had cancer at a relatively young age, so heard that a lot. I wasn't visibly sick, i just knew there's a chance I'm gonna die in the foreseeable future from it. Unless the person saying it had access to some experimental treatment my doctors don't know about, there really was nothing they could have done to help me. I knew it and they knew it. So while I didn't get angry at them (because I…

It seems like it's hard to understand how "let me know if you need anything" is hard to hear unless you've heard it hundreds or thousands of times.

I'm sorry about the situation you are/were in. That must have been very difficult.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#427
post #391

Quite a lot of US culture can come off as phony to (Eastern) Europeans. Friend of mine went to the US for a business schooling event and said people were completely incapable of honest criticism. They would sugar coat criticism under 10 layers of phony praise. He was the only one who actually said something was bad outright, if someone gave a bad presentation. He attributed it to cultural difference. Guess it is rela…

Subtleties are also difficult. If an English person say what you did was great, it most likely wasn't. And if they say it was not bad, it may have been great...

That reverse psychology!

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#428
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a risky hypothesis, but could it have something to do with access to guns? In a society when every stranger can potentially be armed, it might be prudent to somehow display the 'I intend no harm' sign upfront, and smile might be a good proxy for that? The 'the armed society is a polite society' thing? Living in Europe, where owning guns is not common (and carrying personally very very rare), I don't feel comp…

Gun ownership is quite common in many parts of Europe. Finland in particular is nearly the same as the US in terms of percentage of households with firearms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percent_of_households_with_gun...

But in practice it’s still extremely rare to encounter them day-to-day. For example Switzerland is very high but almost all guns are given by the state during military service and are kept locked away in case of invasion. Bullets are illegal.

The totals looks similar but in practice the situation with weapons is extremely different. You have basically no chance to encounter an armed person in the street.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago Masha Gessen did an episode of Conversations With Tyler , a podcast hosted by Tyler Cowen, and at one point she said this about Russian friendships [1]: > ... I think that — and this may answer your question — Russian friendships are much more emotional and intense than American friendships [...] When I moved back to [the USA] five and a half years ago, it was like this sense of whiplash because I had…

That is a great quote, though I have a minor quibble about alcohol being necessary as some of the Russians I befriended were former alcoholics and sober for years. Though others drank beer at dawn. I found I made deep friendships more easily after speaking even a bit of Russian. If you can say "My name is X" and "awesome" and a couple other small phrases it helps. That said, it wasn't until I had put in around 1000 h…

>> One of the things that learning Russian clears up is why they sound so angry to English ears.

Funny. To me (I'm Greek) Russians sound like they're always complaining about something. It's Germans that sound angry.

Edit: I wonder what Greek sounds like to foreign ears. The closes I've come to understanding it is hearing Spanish people talk, who sound a lot like Greek -that I don't understand.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#430
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some parts of the US (particularly small towns and the Midwest) people will not only smile and nod at strangers on the sidewalk, but say hello or ask “how are you?” (not expecting anything other than “fine, thanks”). In New York, that would definitely be cause for concern!

Can confirm. I spent many years in the Midwest and it is very common for strangers there to engage you in conversation randomly just to be nice. In contrast, in most East Coast cities, whenever people start up a conversation without an immediately apparent goal, it is to set up an ask for money.

Which is interesting, because you'd think German or Slav heritage would be more common there. Culture morphs.
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