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Life after an internet mob attack

pasquale.cool

421–430 of 480 posts

Re: Life after an internet mob attack

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only a 5 min read, I recommend it, you might find you have more shared liberal values then you thought, but if you're not going too, let me point out some of the relevant ones here: Article 12 > No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interf…

I don't know why you think I disagree with the idea of liberalism. I simply think if someone is a liberal, they should believe purely disagreeable speech should not have consequences; else, they are an idiot. There are of course more complexities where speech should result in consequences, but in general, if someone says something than another otherwise unrelated person simply disagrees with, the speaker should not h…

>There are of course more complexities where speech should result in consequences, but in general, if someone says something than another otherwise unrelated person simply disagrees with, the speaker should not have their relationship with their friends, family, employer, customers, businesses they use, etc harmed.

So you do agree that freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences after all.

This is exactly what people who say that also believe. They're not supporting harassment, slander or the suppression of non-harmful political speech, nor are they claiming all consequences for speech are equally valid. Rather, simply stating that there are "complexities where speech should result in consequences."

Where the two sides actually differ (when one strips away the strawmen, trolling and bad faith arguments every iteration of this conversation generates) is what speech should be considered "purely disagreeable" (which is a purely subjective term) and what consequences are valid, which can only be determined on a case by case basis, in context.

I personally believe hateful speech should have consequences, even when it isn't explicitly and immediately threatening harm on a specific individual. An employer has the right not to associate with an employee who publicly makes bigoted statements on social media which the public has associated with the company. The public has the right to oppose such speech where it exists, and to try to convince employers to take action.

An actor or public figure whose politics I disagree with can and should be publicly criticized, and their suffering some financial harm due to the public boycotting their work is a legitimate consequence of their views.

A politician, even a sitting President of the United States, who spreads lies and misinformation can be criticized, fact-checked or even banned from social media. And yes, social media platforms should have the right to determine what can and cannot appear on their platforms, and to moderate that content beyond strict legality.

All of that is clearly within the long-established and generally agreed upon boundaries of free speech and freedom of association. None of it is a carte blanche endorsement of harassment.

We may disagree about the details, or be in violent agreement, but everyone is drawing a line in the sand somewhere.

Re: Life after an internet mob attack

#422
post #253
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> strengthening our libel laws This nearly always advantages businesses and the wealthy, especially in false or ambiguous situations, and whistleblowers of all kinds. Litigation is incredibly expensive and slow. Do people really want to spend a house worth and several years on this kind of fight? (This is why the US felt it necessary to pass laws against UK libel judgements being enforced, it was infringing on US sta…

Truth is always an absolute defense to libel. If you can back up what you’re saying, libel isn’t a concern. And if you can't prove what you're saying is true, then why are you saying it?

Even if you say the truth, you still need to pay for a lawyer's swimming pool.

Re: Life after an internet mob attack

#423

I wouldn't call OP's post "receipts", but rather "his curated receipts." What makes more sense? Some dude has been creepy and only showed the positive side in his defense, or three random unrelated women -- who he claims only ever had lovely, adoring exchanges with him -- decided to destroy his life for no apparent reason. I mean, the former case has a precedent for happening almost habitually in the past, you'd have…

My question is, why is this any of your (or my) business? Why do we feel it necessary to involve ourselves in a situation we have neither the context nor the authority to have an opinion?

Because nature tells us :

"Women are saying that a guy had an interaction with them"

So all our brain emergency signals flare up. That's because somebody who is not ourselves having interactions with women triggers an immediate response...that guy is, in fact, an enemy from a reproductive standpoint. Deeply rooted in our brains there is the idea that WE should be interacting with those women and that we must destroy that guy because he's ahead in the reproductive race

This happens subcounciously.

Even standup guys like Bill Gates aren't immune to it, if you want to hurt a guy reputation and you have nothing, absolutely nothing on him...well just say that he's a playboy and a philanderer.

If you claim those things you immediately ruin his reputation with women and with smart/family men. All he's left with the approval of less smart men who are no use for guys who have ambitious goals such as Bill Gates or even the Pasquale VC of the main article. They'd have lost so much "approval rating" among smart men, as well as men who are capable of reading the room and don't want to be associated with a guy who is under attack by the mob.

Re: Life after an internet mob attack

#424
"Lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas."

People who think it's a good idea to non-anonymously discuss their personal life issues in Twitter / public social media are too dangerous to have in your life. Doubly so for the "Silicon Valley" "technorati".

Re: Life after an internet mob attack

#425
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that you are telling the truth. Do you understand that sometimes people do not tell the truth? The question is what level of consequence are you saying we should inflict on people before some kind of evidence beyond an accusation is required? If it's "I tell my friends about what happened, and then they turn down opportunities to work with that person". I don't think anyone would or could sue for libel a…

No, I don’t think that’s reasonable. In the spirit of “It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer”, I don’t think adding more legal liability serves anyone. Moreover, it serves even less people who already have few resources to redress wrongs. It’s not like this concept of “mob ruined my life” is some new concept, it’s something victims of abuse experience or withhold their stories to a…

> No. There should not be legal penalties for describing abuse without legal proof.

This also means, by definition, that there are no legal penalties for lying about abuse without legal proof.

If you piss off the wrong person, they can now stalk you on the Internet “warning people” about how you’re a sexual predator.

No evidence, no way to get them to stop. Better hope you don’t anger someone with a lot of followers. What a shitty world.

Re: Life after an internet mob attack

#426
post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I were to name the people who have sexually assaulted me, here in a comment—which I’ve already said I’m terrified to do even though they don’t have an audience here to my knowledge—but if I did so, just said so to an audience, I should be legally liable to prove it? Because I didn’t keep it private? Can you not see how harmful that is?

I think the accused should have the right to legally challenge a public defamatory statement. In this case... it probably wouldn't be a very strong case, just from a quick google search, my guess is they would struggle with 1 & 4 below. For 1) In civil, this is probably preponderance of evidence (>50% true) vs beyond a reasonable doubt in criminal. For 4) Theoretically this has no impact, you are just screaming into…

If you can't prove it didn't happen, denying the accusation is libel. Fair is fair.

Maybe the real problem is firing someone from their job due to non credible accusations

Re: Life after an internet mob attack

#427
post #356
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'm passing this quote around, not attributing it to being satire, and then when that's pointed out saying it's exaggerated and it works because it accurately represents people's beliefs, even though I said it was exaggerated."

It's blatantly obvious that it's satire, and the link makes that clear.

And yet people in this thread are using it as evidence.

Re: Life after an internet mob attack

#428
post #253
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> strengthening our libel laws This nearly always advantages businesses and the wealthy, especially in false or ambiguous situations, and whistleblowers of all kinds. Litigation is incredibly expensive and slow. Do people really want to spend a house worth and several years on this kind of fight? (This is why the US felt it necessary to pass laws against UK libel judgements being enforced, it was infringing on US sta…

Truth is always an absolute defense to libel. If you can back up what you’re saying, libel isn’t a concern. And if you can't prove what you're saying is true, then why are you saying it?

>If you can back up what you’re saying, libel isn’t a concern.

This is not true. The unfortunate reality is that facts _don't_ matter in the realm of public opinion. They never have.

BUT, you're going to say, "I'm talking about libel, which is litigated in the court of law, not public opinion."

If that is indeed your response, I would suggest you might better familiarize yourself with the actual happenings in civil court cases. They can absolutely be just as insane, and they can absolutely act with the same lack of justice we see in other places.

I really wish most people had the type of integrity you're describing, but the uncomfortable reality is that they do not. People are going to believe the thing that makes them feel better, not the thing that is true.

Re: Life after an internet mob attack

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the "freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences" response that some liberals give has always puzzled me. It is internally inconsistent for a liberal ideology. 1. They believe that "wage slavery" exists. That is, an employee may freely agree to employment conditions under a capitalist view, but under the liberal view, they have not freely agreed since various coercive forces exist that force them a…

> The idea that any consequence of free speech is acceptable is easily countered: the consequence of you calling an insane person stupid is they kill you. "[John] Solomon is hiding because he is a coward who enjoys belittling other people from behind a safe veil of invisibility. His is like many sites on the internet, who mock and insult while lacking any courage to own their own words. In public, these cowards would…

Wow, that's quite a Self-Aware Wolf.

Re: Life after an internet mob attack

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only a 5 min read, I recommend it, you might find you have more shared liberal values then you thought, but if you're not going too, let me point out some of the relevant ones here: Article 12 > No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interf…

I don't know why you think I disagree with the idea of liberalism. I simply think if someone is a liberal, they should believe purely disagreeable speech should not have consequences; else, they are an idiot. There are of course more complexities where speech should result in consequences, but in general, if someone says something than another otherwise unrelated person simply disagrees with, the speaker should not h…

That person is being coy about the difference between Liberal and Progressive and Social Activist, perhaps because they are unaware of the meaning of "liberal" in American politics.
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