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US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

bbc.co.uk

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Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#421

Post by ghaff »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #403
jdminhbg wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a vaccine for a disease that has killed over half a million people in the US over the past year, not a new breast implant. The rules are not some holy writ handed down from above, they are our way of trying to properly manage risk. When the situation changes, the rules can also change.

> This is a vaccine for a disease that has killed over half a million people in the US over the past year Serious question, how many of those people would have died in the past 12 months if they didn't get COVID? The number is most likely not 500,000, but it also probably isn't 0. Is it most likely something insignificant like 5,000?

Probably not that low. This study [1] says about 80,000. (There were about 420,000 excess deaths in the US last year.) That number isn't perfect in that it ignores any death reductions from accidents, say, that didn't happen because people were staying home. It also doesn't account for any deaths resulting from untreated conditions.

[1] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.27.21250604v...

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#422

Post by devwastaken »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #406

7 people out of 7 million dose's. That's why they stopped. My wife and I got the J&J shot on Saturday so I'm directly at risk and I'd take it everytime even if the risk was 10 times what it currently is. I've already seen a bunch of anit-vaxers referring to this in new articles this morning. So let's see, 1 in a million chance that the vaccine will make you sick (only 1 person has died so far, which is terrible but i…

I believe their concern is more of long term effects and not short term. A vaccine isn't meant to cause blood clotting, unless we know the specific mechanism of how that's happening it could be much more dangerous.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#423

Post by [deleted] »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #403
jdminhbg wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a vaccine for a disease that has killed over half a million people in the US over the past year, not a new breast implant. The rules are not some holy writ handed down from above, they are our way of trying to properly manage risk. When the situation changes, the rules can also change.

> This is a vaccine for a disease that has killed over half a million people in the US over the past year Serious question, how many of those people would have died in the past 12 months if they didn't get COVID? The number is most likely not 500,000, but it also probably isn't 0. Is it most likely something insignificant like 5,000?

[deleted]

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#424

Post by jonplackett »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #406

7 people out of 7 million dose's. That's why they stopped. My wife and I got the J&J shot on Saturday so I'm directly at risk and I'd take it everytime even if the risk was 10 times what it currently is. I've already seen a bunch of anit-vaxers referring to this in new articles this morning. So let's see, 1 in a million chance that the vaccine will make you sick (only 1 person has died so far, which is terrible but i…

I just made this website to show you how really, really small the risks are for the AstraZeneca vaccine which also has this ‘issue’.

It compares the risks of dying from a blood clot after the AZ vaccine (about 1 in a million) to the risks we happily take every single day.

http://whatoneinamillionmeans.com

If you're not willing to take 1 in a million chances, it's gonna be pretty hard for you to get out of bed today

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#425

Post by 34679 »

baggy_trough wrote: post #412
jaegerpicker wrote: post #406

7 people out of 7 million dose's. That's why they stopped. My wife and I got the J&J shot on Saturday so I'm directly at risk and I'd take it everytime even if the risk was 10 times what it currently is. I've already seen a bunch of anit-vaxers referring to this in new articles this morning. So let's see, 1 in a million chance that the vaccine will make you sick (only 1 person has died so far, which is terrible but i…

An utterly appalling decision by CYA bureaucrats or innumerate idiots. The leadership of the CDC and FDA must be replaced.

Or maybe someone in a position to influence this decision was heavily invested in a different vaccine. It's perfectly reasonable to assume they're not idiots at all.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#426

Post by tylerhou »

kaczordon wrote: post #354
tylerhou wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But neither have the ability to alter your DNA, so they are unlikely to be able to cause long-term symptoms though a gene-expression mechanism.

Right but they are still gene-based. No gene-based vaccine has ever received approval for human use, and the present coronavirus vaccines have not undergone preclinical testing as normally required by international regulations. A potential danger of DNA-based vaccines is the integration of plasmid DNA into the cell genome (1). Insertional mutagenesis occurs rarely but can become a realistic danger when the number of…

Also,

> and the present coronavirus vaccines have not undergone preclinical testing as normally required by international regulations.

Citation needed.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#427

Post by HillRat »

HillRat wrote: post #343
krooj wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, what’s the effect adenoviruses have on FX? I’m a male with a mild hypercoag disorder and history of DVT. Am scheduled to get the JJ vax today and will be skipping and seeking out mRNA instead.

Not a doctor, so talk to your hematologist! Ads bind to blood factors (Ad5s to FX, HAdVs to FIX, etc), which facilitates organ uptake and interferes with the coagulation cascade and triggers complement activation. Thrombotic thrombocytopenia is a known complication from gene therapy studies, so it’s not surprising, but concerning, that rare but serious coagulatory disorders are appearing in the widespread use of a zo…

I’ll also say that the most significant risk is probably mistreatment of clots, since most doctors probably wouldn’t go right to non-heparin/warfarin DTIs unless they had reason to suspect HIT or had gotten a CBC back.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#428

Post by javagram »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #403
jdminhbg wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a vaccine for a disease that has killed over half a million people in the US over the past year, not a new breast implant. The rules are not some holy writ handed down from above, they are our way of trying to properly manage risk. When the situation changes, the rules can also change.

> This is a vaccine for a disease that has killed over half a million people in the US over the past year Serious question, how many of those people would have died in the past 12 months if they didn't get COVID? The number is most likely not 500,000, but it also probably isn't 0. Is it most likely something insignificant like 5,000?

> Serious question, how many of those people would have died in the past 12 months if they didn't get COVID? The number is most likely not 500,000, but it also probably isn't 0.

This can be answered using “excess mortality” data.

Studies have shown during that time period, about 600,000 more people died than would have been expected compared to deaths in the previous year.

The official covid death count is likely an undercount of deaths caused by covid, because a number of people died from covid related complications and got recorded as pneumonia, Alzheimer’s, or heart disease/attack/stroke related deaths.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/14/us/covid-19-d...

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#429

Post by josephcsible »

fastball wrote: post #362
gnfargbl wrote: post #261

For AstraZeneca and not J&J, but these slides from the University of Cambridge do a better job of communicating the balance of risks than I possibly could: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Yeah, the problem though is that we have a Tragedy of the Commons situation on our hands. There is a non-negligible portion of the population that wants to have its cake and eat it too – reduce the risk that they will suffer health consequences from COVID-19 by letting everyone else get the vaccine, but not getting the vax themselves, therefore putting their risk from vax at zero.

That seems like it'd be easy to fix: the government just needs to say "as soon as you're fully vaccinated, you don't need to social distance or wear a mask in public anymore". Since that isn't their position, there's basically zero incentive for young, healthy people to risk the vaccine side effects.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#430

Post by doikor »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #406

7 people out of 7 million dose's. That's why they stopped. My wife and I got the J&J shot on Saturday so I'm directly at risk and I'd take it everytime even if the risk was 10 times what it currently is. I've already seen a bunch of anit-vaxers referring to this in new articles this morning. So let's see, 1 in a million chance that the vaccine will make you sick (only 1 person has died so far, which is terrible but i…

The problem isn't 7 out of 7 million odds. It is that it is an unknown side effect that did not come up in the original studies.

We have approved vaccines with worse side effects before. The difference is that we knew what those side effects were and weighed the risk vs reward and made the call to use it.

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