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Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

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Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#421

Post by Tenoke »

alias_neo wrote: post #319

I got hit with this a few years back. I signed up for Ps CC for a month (I thought) to create an anniversary gift for my wife. I used it ONCE. Tried to cancel and they told me I had in fact signed up for a year, and that if I didn't cancel now, they'd give me two months free. I didn't want it at all! Anyway, I sucked it up, got on with the remainder of the year, because they wouldn't let me put the cancellation in ea…

This is exactly how contracts for a lot of things, most notably ISPs work in Germany and it's infuriating.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#422

Post by tomaskafka »

dorkwood wrote: post #416
jrockway wrote: post #395

The downfall of Adobe is interesting to watch. New releases get more expensive every year, but they aren't really adding features. I had to switch to Affinity to get an iPad version, for example. 21,000 employees and they can't port Photoshop to ARM? I think at this point, they're just coasting on brand recognition alone. They certainly aren't adding much value; all they can do is rent you their software at higher an…

Can you really call it a dying company when their annual revenue has tripled over the last seven years? This isn't the downfall of Adobe. This is the most successful they've ever been.

This is how a milking stage of a product looks like, it's a last stage before death.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#423

Post by shawnz »

dmingod666 wrote: post #229
DominikPeters wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you bother to read the small print, it appears to be written to be deliberately misleading. Instead of positively saying that one enters an annual commitment, it only says that there is "No annual commitment required after the first year". "Cancel anytime" suggests you can stop your contract, not that you have the option to pre-pay the remaining months and forfeit your access.

Correct, it's misleading if you chose to ignore the words "after the first year".

If four words alone can change the entire meaning then I would say that is likely to mislead people.

I am sure you can agree they didn't do their best in making the nature of the contract as clear as possible here.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#424

Post by maccard »

sherry-sherry wrote: post #406
maccard wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of this could be solved by saying "You are agreeing to pay a total of $923.88 over 12 months at $76.99 per-month. If you cancel, the minimum cost to you is $461.94 (50% of the total Annual plan), this decreases evenly each month. And presumably this must be on primary pricing page, not below the fold, have different options for with and without vat, and they must display this for the up-front annual sub, pay-mo…

> And presumably this must be on primary pricing page, not below the fold It just has to be before you commit to the contract. > Yes, they do. [1] clearly says No, that page shows no prices whatsoever. Your minimum commitments should be shown before you agree to the contract. People keep making it out like it's some huge imposition on companies to tell customer how much money they'll pay. Here's an example of a more…

> It just has to be before you commit to the contract.

But then the other half [0] of this thread that claim putting the dropdown on the second page isn't enough.

> No, that page shows no prices whatsoever.

It states you can cancel and will be charged 50% of the remaining balance. That number depends on when you cancel, so it's not possible to give an actual figure to it. Could that flow be improved? Sure, you could have a page per product, but I do'nt think it's deceitful to have a clear link to the cancellation terms of the contract from both the marketing page _and_ the purchase page.

> Your minimum commitments should be shown before you agree to the contract.

One click on the purchase page shows this [1] which shows three options, one for prepaid, one for annual for paid monthly, and one for monthly. How much clearer do you want it?

> Here's an example of a more complicated flow from an Australian phone carrier Telstra,

That flow is almost identical to Adobe's - it doesn't show you the actual cost to the customer, it shows you the cost of the device, and separately the cost of the subscription. On the cancellation terms page, it also tells you you will be due "the full amount" - not what the amount is. (Unrelated, that's a nice recording).

This stuff is _hard_, yes adobe could do better, but at a certain point, you have to accept that the user understands the terms of what they're agreeing to. An "Annual Plan, paid monthly" couldn't really be any clearer.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26787289

[1] https://imgur.com/a/AOwlyoQ

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#425

Post by Tenoke »

DominikPeters wrote: post #186
Mandatum wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is disingenuous at best, and fraudulent at worst - and I know ACCC in Australia will take a very dim view. Take the main page for instance, the one you linked - it lists monthly prices. No mention whatsoever of "annual pricing paid monthly" - it's JUST monthly mentioned. Pic: https://imgur.com/sZPfFDI When you click "See plans and pricing details" it gives you the Annual monthly and ACTUAL monthly prices. Pic: h…

You're getting lots of replies from (I presume) Americans, who are used to much scammier business behavior than what I know from Germany and you describe in Australia. One related example is the pervasive practice in America of displaying a price without fees (like "resort fees" for hotels that can be +50%) and of course taxes, with the actual price only becoming apparent after additional effort is invested in the ch…

>Germany

What? ISP and similar contracts in Germany almody work exactly like this but with 2 years minimum not 1 and no cancelation in the last 3 months of the period.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#426

Post by cosmodisk »

onion2k wrote: post #415
8fingerlouie wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adobe isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Yes there are alternatives, Affinity, Pixelmator, etc, but all that's being taught in educational institutions is Adobe, and it's what the industry uses. Private/small business users are a very small part of their business, but one that requires as many (if not more) support resources as large customers, so if anything they're probably happy to see them go elsewhere. And no, i…

Adobe isn't going anywhere anytime soon. DEC, Commodore, Novell, SGI, Cray, Lotus, and Acorn would like you to explain how a computing companies last forever.

Adobe isn't going anywhere anytime soon. It may at some point,but not in the next 10-15 years. The last time I looked at their SEC fillings, they are doing pretty good. Of course how they achieve this 'pretty good' is a whole new question on its own. Adobe is very strongly rooted in the design industry, there are very few alternatives that are mainly used by smaller shops or individuals. I do agree that they are absolutely riding on their own wave right now due to lack of competition, but someday, someone will come along with a better offering.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#427

Post by SkipperCat »

onion2k wrote: post #415
8fingerlouie wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adobe isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Yes there are alternatives, Affinity, Pixelmator, etc, but all that's being taught in educational institutions is Adobe, and it's what the industry uses. Private/small business users are a very small part of their business, but one that requires as many (if not more) support resources as large customers, so if anything they're probably happy to see them go elsewhere. And no, i…

Adobe isn't going anywhere anytime soon. DEC, Commodore, Novell, SGI, Cray, Lotus, and Acorn would like you to explain how a computing companies last forever.

Dont forget Sun. I remember a time when SPARC ruled the datacenter.....

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#428

Post by stuaxo »

metafunctor wrote: post #198
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't have to do math in my head that's +x% sales or state tax. That type of practice just isn't acceptable anywhere else. Oblig: sales/retail taxes in the US vary city-by-city. While just like the rest of the world: US companies put their MSRP on products - but it would be unfair to expect retailers to charge the MSRP and eat the tax themselves because some areas have zero sales tax but others have a 10% tax. Th…

The seller decides on the price, and labels the goods accordingly. Whatever "recommended retail price" may be printed on the box is of course covered with a sticker with the actual price. It's about consumer protection. Buyers must know exactly how much they will need to pay to purchase an item BEFORE they pay. It would be unfair to expect consumers to calculate these things.

In Europe and the UK that won't fly. If it came with a price printed on the box, that's the price they should sell it at.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#429

Post by stuaxo »

mitchdoogle wrote: post #187
sk5t wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automobile leases, apartments, and the like are listed with monthly rates, but your commitment to pay is longer than one month. What's the difference?

An apartment (at least in the US) is well understood to be a yearly lease. Software purchasing not. Similar software may be priced monthly, annually, everything upfront, or even free. If you put a price and list it as monthly and neglect to mention anywhere that it requires a year agreement, then it's an obvious dark pattern. You know it is because they easily could add "annual contract required" underneath, like mos…

In other countries you don't need the "well understood" part, it's all up front info.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#430

Post by 987yghj »

bregma wrote: post #419
987yghj wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if this would have been enforceable. Just because their contract says something does not mean it holds up in court.

All it would take is your fleet of lawyers against Adobe's office towers full of lawyers. If you have the resources to back that, be a sport and make the sacrifice for the rest of us.

All it takes is saying 'no' and then THEY have to sue YOU, which would be in small claims court where you really don't need a lawyer.
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