Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why can't I write code inside my browser?

tomcritchlow.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

421–430 of 624 posts

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#421

Post by subjectsigma »

One time when I was much younger I wrote an auto-download script for a forum I liked. I used it just for myself and never had a problem, so one day I posted it with instructions on how to use it. A few minutes later I got a really angry reply; some guy had hit a weird edge case and it was downloading the same links over and over, rapidly filling up his small SSD and causing all kinds of problems. I apologized and posted a fix, but I was already getting absolutely reamed in the replies by other people who either had the same bug, or some other. That's how I learned newbies should not throw random code on the Internet - it pisses people off when you tell them "Use this!" and then it breaks their computer.

When I people say "I want everyone to be able to code on the web in JavaScript", what I really hear is "I want an Internet full of broken, unusable, and possibly dangerous garbage, written in one of the least safe and elegant languages ever created, where most things are completely hostile to the majority who come across it."

Additionally, if this person can't read a ten-minute tutorial on how to install Ruby with homebrew, imagine what else they probably won't do:

- Read/write a CoC or contributor's guidelines - Spend time translating their web pages, or making them accessible - Understand basic security and privacy issues/best practices - Take the extra time to make useful bug reports, or make reports at all - Read (or write) references, documentation, or tutorials - Learn general netiquette for commits, mailing lists, pull requests - Understand the basics of open-source licenses

And maybe this is totally fine for your completely personal hobby project, but the next logical step is having other people use it. This isn't the kind of behavior we want to carry into that next step.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#422

Post by melling »

kichimi wrote: post #96

I try to keep my comments nice on HN but in this case I can't, I've met this kind of person many times now and I just can't hold back. The author is lazy, and is channeling his energy into complaining rather than learning. He believes he is by default an expert on the 'user friendliness' of programming. His comments don't really make much sense, and come across as whining that should be ignored. "People hate command…

Yes, I love the CLI too. It’s quite efficient for many tasks.

However, there are times when I’d like to do it all in the browser too, preferably on a tablet or small laptop.

I won’t be at my most productive, but I’ll likely be sitting in my backyard or in a park.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#423

Post by user-the-name »

iam-TJ wrote: post #414
user-the-name wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I am saying is, as soon as someone new to programming points out, entirely correctly, that the tools we use are weird, obscure and difficult to use for no apparent reason, programmers will scream in rage that no, they are not, and by the way, you are stupid for saying it, you clearly have no idea what you are doing and you will never be a programmer. As is happening everywhere in this very thread. I am saying th…

I'd like to put one of your comments in a different but maybe enlightening context: What I am saying is, as soon as someone new to gardening points out, entirely correctly, that the tools we use are weird, obscure and difficult to use for no apparent reason, gardeners will scream in rage that no, they are not, and by the way, you are stupid for saying it, you clearly have no idea what you are doing and you will never…

Now imagine that gardeners all use chainsaws. They are very proud of how skilled they are at their chainsaw usage.

A new person comes in, and asks, why on earth do you all use chainsaws for this? Wouldn't it be easier to use more appropriate tools?

And the gardeners immediately call him clueless, make fun of him for not being able to handle a chainsaw, and tell him he will never be a gardener if he can't even figure out how to use a chainsaw.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#424

Post by flippinburgers »

user-the-name wrote: post #106
malux85 wrote: post #88

If the author has “been playing with the web and code for years” and is still “wtf” on /usr/local/bin in $PATH it shows a lack of discipline and structure in their learning. I see this in many in many of my apprentices - the desire for instant gratification and the lack of experience means they refuse to do anything that doesn’t immediately proceed them closer to their goal. Here’s the thing with programming - you ca…

/usr/local/bin has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with programming. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. It is completely superfluous knowledge. It is only required because, as the author correctly points out, the tools we use are BAD. They are absolutely fucking AWFUL. /usr/local/bin is an implementation detail from an OS nobody has used for decades. It's still here because we refuse to fix these ridiculous things. Nobody sho…

Every linux environment in the world is in disagreement with you.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#425

Post by lgeorget »

I kind of get that person's point (although I don't quite understand the tone...). I introduced my wife to LaTeX when she started her PhD because she had very specific typesetting needs like phonetic alphabet and arrows on top of words to indicate intonation. She discovered a wonderful world! But none of that could have been possible if she had had to install a LaTeX distribution and an editor on Windows .

Overleaf (and previously Sharelatex) on the other end makes everything easy. You have the choice between XeLateX, PDFLaTeX, etc., all the useful packages you could dream of, and more, without installing anything. Plus collaborative editing for free, when she needs help with a macro or a new environment definition.

So, yeah, being able to program without having to install a development environment is great. There are tools to do that already, like Repl.it, maybe the OP could try that.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#426

Post by yesenadam »

sidpatil wrote: post #382
kichimi wrote: post #96

I try to keep my comments nice on HN but in this case I can't, I've met this kind of person many times now and I just can't hold back. The author is lazy, and is channeling his energy into complaining rather than learning. He believes he is by default an expert on the 'user friendliness' of programming. His comments don't really make much sense, and come across as whining that should be ignored. "People hate command…

"When someone says 'I want a programming language in which I need only say what I wish done,' give him a lollipop." Epigram 93, Alan Perlis http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html

> a programming language in which I need only say what I wish done

I like Prolog because it is that language. Other languages you have to write a program telling the machine what to do every step of the way. (Except if the program uses neural nets.)

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#428

Post by shawnz »

tidenly wrote: post #28
topcat31 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mentioned Glitch and Replit in the article - they're great and I love them but there's still something missing about relying on these platforms imho. I think cementing a default coding environment right into the browser would make it a lot more accessible - and actually be much closer to real coding where you're manipulating files and running code. Plus: glitch/replit are quite slow to do any real coding inside of vs…

If you open the dev tools in your browser there's a full sandbox environment right there, not to mention the load of other sites available. I don't see why specifically Node should be installed.

Agreed, the much stronger counterargument is that all major browsers already have JS development environments built in! I am curious to hear why this is not suitable for the author.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#429

Post by sergeykish »

user-the-name wrote: post #176
kichimi wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which one? Please explain how it's pointless. What is esoteric about typing which program you want to run?

Standard unix shells. They contain a massive amount of complexity and obfuscation that only exists because that's how it was always done and nobody dares change it any longer.

ðɪ ˈɪŋɡlɪʃ ɪz pˈɔɪntləs. ɪt kəntˈeɪnz ɐ mˈasɪv ɐmˈaʊnt ɒv kəmplˈɛksɪti and ˌɒbfəskˈeɪʃən ðat ˈəʊnli ɛɡzˈɪsts bɪkˈʌz ðats hˌaʊ ɪt wɒz ˈɔːlweɪz dˈʌn and nˈəʊbɒdˌi dˈeəz tʃˈeɪndʒ ɪt ˌɛni lˈɒŋɡə

Shell (just like language) is a medium. We use it to communicate our ideas, not because it is great or flawless.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#430

Post by bccdee »

kichimi wrote: post #96

I try to keep my comments nice on HN but in this case I can't, I've met this kind of person many times now and I just can't hold back. The author is lazy, and is channeling his energy into complaining rather than learning. He believes he is by default an expert on the 'user friendliness' of programming. His comments don't really make much sense, and come across as whining that should be ignored. "People hate command…

Yeah... you're being a bit unkind, but you're not wrong. The author mentions having "failed to install pip" — pip isn't exactly challenging to install. There's a base of important technical knowledge here that they don't have, and any GUI would just be a bandaid which prolongs the period for which they can get by without learning.
Post reply on HN