Poll: Switching from WhatsApp • Hacker News Board

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#421

Post by pelasaco » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:51 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #335

pelasaco wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. However it won't solve the problem of privacy regarding Facebook. Other issue that I see here, people want an unified messenger, with a great user experience, 100% secure, open-source, multi-platform, free (as in beer) and no monetization included. I'm sometimes shocked that here - hacker news - people underestimate the price of good software development, infrastructure and maintenance.

Even a tiny amount of monetization should pay for development of a chat app... Imagine you build it with a team of 5 software devs for each of linux, mac, windows, android, ios, web. You build it in Europe paying a generous salary of $80k. You need 1 server per million users (as whatsapp did pre-acquisition), hosted on say AWS. If you get 10% of the world to use it, the total running costs are 1.2 cents per user per…

> Imagine you build it with a team of 5 software devs for each of linux, mac, windows, android, ios, web. You build it in Europe paying a generous salary of $80k.

Optimistic and dangerous. You will need at least a visionary person like Moxy willing to dedicate his/her life to the project. You need a master mind to get all the security architecture right. BTW You will need an operation team and multiple servers to make sure that everything runs stable. Just look the costs for running COVID-19 apps. Development and operation. Million of Euros. You can expect similar costs to run a service able to compete with WhatsApp.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#422

Post by fsflover » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:51 PM UTC

josteink wrote: post #250

captainmuon wrote: post #49

Is Matrix a good alternative to Signal? I'm currently using Signal, but I'm not entirely satisfied. My major issues are that I don't like their stance on a couple of issues: third party clients are not allowed, mobile first and desktop is only synced, phone number required, and distribution only over the app stores. Also we frequently get "encryption errors" and everybody ignores them, this is worse than with SSH key…

> Is Matrix a good alternative to Signal? To a certain degree I'd say this is apples vs oranges. Before you shoot me down, let me explain. The reason I say that is because of the core focus of the different platforms. Signal's priority-one use-case is clearly person-to-person IM and communication. The UI, setup-process and entire architecture is optimized for this one use-case, with all other use-cases being shoehorn…

Are you suggesting to use a separate app for every different use case?

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#423

Post by AsyncAwait » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

I feel like non encrypted messengers like Telegram/Discord/Zoom shouldn't even be in the running here as alternatives.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#424

Post by r007c0n7r0l » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

slothtrop wrote: post #378

apexalpha wrote: post #155

Where is the "Don't switch" option? Because as much as I hate that Facebook bought them, they're part of what I would call "critical social infrastructure." Asking to leave WhatsApp is like cancelling your contract with your ISP and going offline just because you don't like the company.

As someone who's never used such a service, help me understand what's so critical about it. Can't people just send SMS? Aren't people on fb anyway, which can be accessed with a container on Firefox? EDIT: got some answers re SMS. Fine, though that doesn't explain why there is so much overlap/redundancy with social media applications. At a glance, it appears I could do the very same things (groups, multimedia) messagi…

WhatsApp allows Group Conversations and Sharing Media (Pictures, Videos, Files, Audio Files, GPS Location, Video Calls). SMS and MMS can not cope with that in large quantity like 100mbs of video files and hundred of pictures, because data is cheaper than MMS costs.

This Privacy policy change whill allow Facebook, who bought WhatsApp, to extract all these data for their own purpose, before it was not the case.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#425

Post by levosmetalo » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

m000 wrote: post #284

Is there any unbiased analysis of the implications of the WhatsApp change of policy? The most popular HN story on the subject [1] tells us little about that. As far as I can tell, the TL;DR of the change is that your WhatsApp identifier will be linked to your FB data, so that personalized advertisements can be displayed in WhatsApp. The only detail I find highly objectionable in the change, is FB collecting through W…

> (I can confirm that on my side: I'm living in Europe and I haven't seen the dreaded popup yet.)

Also leaving in EU and just got the popup this morning, so it's definitely comming to Europe too.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#426

Post by fsflover » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

approxim8ion wrote: post #84

damidekronik wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downgrade in terms of privacy from WhatsApp? Some explanation is needed for such a bold statement.

I'm referring to two things(although really just one) here - WhatsApp claims to store messages only as long as they are undelivered, after which they are purged from their servers. Even if they are retained, they are e2e encrypted. Telegram on the other hand, from what I can see, store all messages in plaintext or in an encrypted-at-rest form where they control and have access to the keys. It comes down to whether I…

> they are e2e encrypted

Only if you trust Facebook with their proprietary software.

And on Telegram you can easily export your history at any time and delete from the servers.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#427

Post by max_ » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

I would like to switch to any of these, but my family members don't use any of these.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#428

Post by holstvoogd » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:54 PM UTC

rglullis wrote: post #228

From the listed alternatives, only Matrix is the one that actually solves the issue of not having to trust our communications to any single monopolistic entity. You could add XMPP there as well, but it really doesn't matter. What does matter is for us to start pushing for openness and start evangelizing/helping others to adopt anything that puts us back in control of our communication. This is the one thing to fix, a…

> It's work to run/manage a server: find a hosting provider

I'm thinking it might be time to accept that 'we', hackers/nerds/technically inclined individuals/early adopters, start 'selling' and providing these services for our families and friends.

Assuming you are involved with communick: I like the idea of, but I am not sold on moving my communications etc to some random llc. Especially with as little information as there is on the website, I'm having trouble trusting that. I would not send my friend and family there tbh.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#429

Post by yunier-rojas » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:55 PM UTC

https://wire.com/

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#430

Post by aembleton » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 2:55 PM UTC

TomJansen wrote: post #346

Why not Tox? That is the only one I know which is really decentralized

It doesn't support ios. Some of my friends are on that platform.

I also installed the android client and it wanted permission for the camera, files and I think the microphone. I didn't grant it any of them and it then refused to work. So it got uninstalled.

A messaging app has to be able to work without any permission except for network access and maybe the contact book.