YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#421

Post by cambalache » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:02 PM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

> But...

There is no "buts" regarding freedom. I dont know if you have any experience with authoritarian measures but none of them starts like "This is a bad and permanent measure for no reason"... all of them are "exceptional", "to ensure public safety" ,"only valid as long as extraordinary circumstances are present"..all of them. The democrats were claiming fraud 4 years go due to a supposed Russian influence.The evidence was tenuous and circumstantial at best. I dont remember seeing a similar cry for censorship. The problem that America , and for extension a big part of the world has, is that the world is view through tribalism. People LOVE to say they are objective, but that is rarely rarely the case.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#422

Post by GordonS » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:02 PM UTC

mvanga wrote: post #344

The cynic in me sees this, which is just the latest move in a series of overreaching actions being taken by the big social media giants, as an effort to get Section 230 repealed. The more blatant they are in their partisan actions, the more they rile up the opposition and the more the pressure on lawmakers to repeal Section 230. Once that happens, they get to have full control over the content on their platforms "bec…

Can you really call these "partisan actions"?

They are removing videos containing provable, obvious lies. An unabated, huge volume of lies and deceit, that altogether is potentially dangerous.

Those lies happen to favour a political party, and are even instigated by the leader of that party, but I don't agree that the action of removing them is "partisan"; these actions would be taken regardless of which party was benefiting.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#423

Post by skoskie » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:04 PM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

I think you nailed it, but I want to reframe it just a little.

There have always been limitations on free speech, especially when it presents a danger to others. That’s exactly what the talking heads are doing, and their speech absolutely should be limited.

But as with so many harmful things, we humans tend to only be good at reacting to immediate threats while ignoring those that kill us slowly. Think dietary decisions.

If you call for violence, you get in trouble, but if you spend months pushing propaganda meant to inspire violence, you get away with it. We’ve got to recognize the cumulative effects are the same and react accordingly.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#424

Post by tikthot » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:04 PM UTC

Veen wrote: post #315

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #110

We are very fortunate to have the algorithms, employees & management of Youtube/Google watching out for us. We're not intelligent enough to view a video and decide for ourselves what is fact v. propaganda v. entertainment. Hopefully some day we will have the same protections the CCP gives its people with even more content moderation. Thank you Google - you're the nanny the American people and the world always hoped f…

> Hopefully some day we will have the same protections the CCP gives its people Do you not see the contradiction inherent in this? Your implied argument is that people are smart enough to see through propaganda, and your example is China, a society shaped by an extremely effective propaganda machine.

Can you not read the sarcasm?

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#425

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:05 PM UTC

bbg24 wrote: post #338

> We also disallow content alleging widespread fraud or errors changed the outcome of a historical U.S. Presidential election. How can any honest person accept this state of affairs? What would be the reaction of the gleefully censorious US big tech employees, many here on HN, if non-US social media giant enacted such measures in their locality? I don't see evidence that the 2020 election stolen from the Republican c…

[deleted]

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#426

Post by yenwodyah » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:07 PM UTC

It's heartening to see Google finally taking steps towards curbing the spread of disinformation on their platforms recently. Now if only Facebook would do the same.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#427

Post by throway1gjj » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:07 PM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

Wait, are you talking about the Russia hoax or Charlottesville hoax?

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#428

Post by briefcomment » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:08 PM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

[flagged]

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#429

Post by anonymousab » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:08 PM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

I don't think we're anywhere near peak. The potential of deepfake videos - and not realistic ones necessarily, but memey reaffirments ala many photoshops - is massive and heavily underutilized compared to where they could be. And that's just one small dimension of lightly explored territory.

If anything, this cycle has simply shown that there is massive merit in investing heavily in brazen manipulation techniques.

We ain't seen nothing yet.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#430

Post by neogodless » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:08 PM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

The President is the most powerful figure of the government. Government censorship is the greatest threat to democracy.

The President wants his voice to be the loudest, most trusted voice.

The President wants to discredit any dissenting voices.

The President only wants your vote to count if you voted for him.

If you are against censorship, how can you stand behind such a President, who wants to control the messaging that every citizen hears and believes, and whether your own voice even counts?

Who here thinks more people get political information from President Trump than get political news from YouTube?