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Billionaires Build

paulgraham.com

421–430 of 957 posts

Re: Billionaires Build

#421
post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the only way to become a billionaire is by exploiting people Here's a slightly different take on this idea: The only way to become a billionaire is to use leverage. I think this is a much more defensible argument. You can't become a billionaire by yourself. You have to have some mechanism of leverage to magnify your impact. Hiring employees is a form of leverage. Using a computer is a form of leverage. Putting your…

You are turning a moral judgement ("exploiting") to a more mechanical expression ("using leverage"). For critics of billionaires, the moral judgement is the whole point. Whether the "billionaire problem" belongs in the moral realm or in the dispassionate realm of math or economics is an ideological choice.

Does using leverage not involved skillful means?

Re: Billionaires Build

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right about the feedback loops that make it hard to escape poverty. The most uncomfortable one to talk about is basic social network effects. Two people meet at some prestigious college and get married - are we shocked they have children who are predisposed for success? Besides from having god-given IQ, they are likely some combination of ambitious, punctual, respectful of authority, long-term oriented, hard-…

In your explanation I see the feedback loop that makes it easier for you and your children to stay out of poverty if you're already successful. I don't see a feedback loop that makes it hard to escape poverty. Why did the high school dropouts drop out in the first place, and why does that make their kid more likely to drop out? Ideally their kid should still have access to public school education, with all the tools…

> Ideally their kid should still have access to public school education, with all the tools needed to go on to become successful themselves.

Ideally, but in reality public education is not an equalizer like that. Wealthy parents give their students advantages that school can't provide in our society: e.g. upper class culture and habits, resources for extra education, connections, etc.

Even the institutional bits aren't equal: local property tax based funding mechanisms mean richer people live in better-resourced school districts than poorer people, with better educational opportunities.

Re: Billionaires Build

#423
post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is basically the labour theory of value and ignores the value of capital and organisation. Some guy delivering stuff in a garage is not going to be nowhere near as productive as an Amazon worker. The crucial bit that people miss is that it is capital, goodwill and organisation allows employees to generate so much money in the first place. Basically the sum is greater than its parts. If you want to know where pro…

> ignores the value of capital and organisation it doesn't. that capital was built by labor.

That is, if you assume the labor theory of value is true, then UK-Al05's criticism is wrong, so the labor theory of value remains unrefuted. That's... not a very convincing argument.

Re: Billionaires Build

#424
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that entrepreneurial endeavors are not a zero sum game. Politicians and people sometimes act like billionaires are hoarding a big slice of pie selfishly for themselves, but the reality is they made the pie bigger by adding value to the world. By the definition of how markets work they had to have added more value then they got compensated. This is how it works with idealized new products. With hi…

How about the value destroyed? Im thinking of online retailers and the killing of the brick and mortar stores with lots of local economy and jobs murdered. Who decries those? The destitute become voiceless while the voice of the ones who got to the top becomes a strong unison and myths to riches are created so more people could be exploited.

How do you measure the value lost by the jobs of stablehands, cobblers, milkmen, and movie projectionists?

Re: Billionaires Build

#425
post #312

About to write some possibly controversial stuff... My early life, I grew up and had middle to upper middle class all around me. In my late teens and early twenties, there were times I had to scrounge my cushions and rummage through my car to find enough change to eat a meal. We live in a society where everyone has access to a computer—personal or local library. We have all the information we need to bring (the major…

This seems like a sheltered view of poverty.

When you live in poverty, there is no such thing as peace or thinking about the future. You are trying to cope minute-by-minute with hunger, abuse, fear, and limitless insecurity. You know someone who is in jail, someone who has been shot/stabbed/murdered, and plenty of people who did all the right things and still failed to make it out. In a nutshell, there's no such thing as tomorrow when you hope to die in your sleep.

Self-fulfillment is at the top of Maslow's hierarchy. Until society provides for all the needs beneath it, having access to the internet isn't going to make a damn bit of difference.

Re: Billionaires Build

#426
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither category should exist. The fact billionaires exist is an indictment against our system and how we allocate resources.

Who would allocate resources better?

Well, maybe you could have an extremely large group of people independently allocate that capital to firms who they believe could provide them with utility immediately, rather than having it inflate the cost of capital?

Re: Billionaires Build

#427
post #401
post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let her control it til the end of the tax year, and then let her help fund the system that made her fabulously wealthy.

The government is made up of people who make mistakes even if they have the best of intentions. It doesn't make sense for a bureaucrat to have more control of the wealth than the person who created that wealth purely from her imagination.

A government that makes some "mistakes" is far better than the alternative. Just ask the town a bunch of libertarians took over. [0]

0: https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-int...

Re: Billionaires Build

#428
post #312

About to write some possibly controversial stuff... My early life, I grew up and had middle to upper middle class all around me. In my late teens and early twenties, there were times I had to scrounge my cushions and rummage through my car to find enough change to eat a meal. We live in a society where everyone has access to a computer—personal or local library. We have all the information we need to bring (the major…

I'm pretty sure you've only explained why an upper-middle class upbringing makes you much more suited to success than a lower class one. If you have that upbringing, then you're right, nothing is stopping you from doing all of this. But if you don't, well, what are you supposed to do? Your relationship to work is what it is because you can't afford to lose your job, and you were raised in an environment where others…

Thank you for saying this. As a high-schooler from a lower middle-class family in Greece, I feel this pain every single day. It's therapeutic to see it is not as personal as it feels.

I know my generation has free access to almost all of human knowledge online, I know hard work and study can pull me out of this hell. I start every day hoping to do just that, but my accomplishments remain depressingly few regardless. Honestly, it's even getting worse over time, I was a far brighter and gifted kid once. I live in fear of how much smarter some of my peers are getting and I can't catch up.

It's like, every time I try to escape this mess, I fall back to a predetermined state of idleness. Most of the blame is on me; I was actually given some good opportunities to better myself by teachers who cared, I was a step away from scholarships at private schools and studying abroad etc. and I blew it all away. I never worked hard enough. Some of my failures may just boil down to luck.

Still, it is sad to think (with hindsight) how much different everything could've been, if my starting conditions were just a bit better. If I had been given a nudge in the right direction at challenging moments, instead of having to rely on self-study and self-help. If my parents had made me play an instrument, learn math earlier, read more books or make friends. God, it would've been so much better had I known somebody who had already done the things I wanted to do.

Breaking out of the loop is very, very hard without help. It is like the Münchhausen Trilemma. Anyway, I hope this comment is not inappropriate for HN, I just have nowhere else to vent. Sorry.

Re: Billionaires Build

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"you have to be able to capture the difference between the value of someone else’s work and what you pay them to do it" This implicitly assumes that "the value of someone else's work" is independent of the context in which that work is done. The reason Jeff can pay someone less than the value (to Jeff) of that person's work is that, somewhere other than Amazon, that person's work would be less valuable. The reason is…

> This implicitly assumes that "the value of someone else's work" is independent of the context in which that work is done. Not really, since no one is arguing that this worker-capital relationship should change. That the synergy exists is a good thing. But the tax burden of the two groups is what’s at issue. On the one side, you have the “they built it, they should keep it” folks. On the other side are those that be…

> Not really, since no one is arguing that this worker-capital relationship should change.

Maybe this would be better stated as "...since many of us are not arguing that...".

Re: Billionaires Build

#430
no.

A better first-order approximation to reality, is "Billionaires Exploit".

A second order approximation is that Billionaires exploit a) the political system by funding politicians indirectly so they will implement policies that enhance profits, b) poor employees by paying them a wage they cannot live on without government subsidies while keeping them in precarious arrangements to avoid union benefits and c) natural resources by avoiding costs which should be inherent [ eg. defer cost of redressing carbon pollution and recycling ].

Paul meets the best kind of proto-billionaire - innovators who aspire to _make_ something useful, or at least something that people want - and perhaps doesn't get to interview the appalling idle-rich dynasty billionaires who inherit obscene wealth, and cannot spend money faster than it grows.

We should not be congratulating Gates on investing money in Vaccines - we should have taxed him properly and used that money to fund vaccines/healthcare and climate initiatives. Then perhaps the 15 copies of windows 'tax' - which I paid for but never used because I installed linux - would be distributed democratically.

Look around.. what part of the world is not on fire ? Startups are not the solution to our current evils. I would suggest that we have abandoned the fair rules that governed our economy, and our democracies, weakening our systems and institutions - and this has put us in peril.

Covid is merely a kick-the-tyres test before the real game of climate change, and we have failed that test. The pandemic has exposed dire systemic weaknesses. If one 9/11 per day of aunties dying is not enough to wake us up, will the permanent melting of the ice caps even be noticed ?

Printing digital cash to prop up stock prices is a great way to get us through a pandemic induced economic shock, but we need to learn from this quickly, and rebuild our institutions - a free market works only if people can trust that the rules of the market are fair. We must rapidly align the engine of enterprise to our global survival : tax the uber-rich brutally, spend it wisely in the war on climate change.

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