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Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

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Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#421

Post by krageon »

jseliger wrote: post #325
gaul wrote: post #187

I maintain mbpfan and have contributed to a few other Linux on Mac tools. Linux on Mac is not worth the effort. I ran Ubuntu on a 2011 MacBook Air and now run Fedora on a 2014 MacBook Air. There were several papercuts even with these relatively open models where it took a while to get suspend, trackpad, fan, webcam, wifi, etc. working properly. You will need to use binary drivers for the latter two features and some…

I'd suspect, though, that most Linux people who considered running it on Apple hardware just shrugged and picked very similar PC hardware instead. Apple's m1 computers have no PC analogue and may not for some time. I've not used one but it appears they really are different, and better, than anything else in their class.

> Apple's m1 computers have no PC analogue

And they don't need to. There's hardware available that works just as well, the buzzy marketing space around M1 is just that: marketing. Nobody needs this.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#422

Post by krageon »

lmm wrote: post #271
marcan_42 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would absolutely all be done with upstreamability in mind, and upstreamed as soon as is practical. All that horrible forked kernel stuff is the realm of companies with closed development teams who don't care and just want a product out the door. The PS4 Linux stuff I did was not upstreamed for lack of time/interest, but I absolutely considered it being decent enough to upstream when writing it. PS3 Linux running…

> All that horrible forked kernel stuff is the realm of companies with closed development teams who don't care and just want a product out the door. Or people who gave upstreaming an honest try but got fed up. It's not the easiest project to contribute to.

If you can't be bothered to learn how to write linux kernel patches properly you shouldn't be making them at all, in a forked kernel or otherwise.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#423

Post by robin_reala »

lmm wrote: post #411
spacedcowboy wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The development methodology has nothing to do with whether something is FOSS or not. If you're complaining that you want to see daily updates, that's a completely different thing than claiming it's not FOSS (as OP did).

FOSS means being able to develop it the same way they do. That ought to mean being able to see to VCS history, bug trackers and so on - their own developers would use those things when developing.

It really doesn’t mean that. Neither Stallman’s four freedoms[1] nor Peren’s Open Source Definition[2] have anything to say about code history, bug trackers, development standards etc etc, and they’re the only commonly accepted definitions for what free and open source software is.

[1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html.en

[2] https://opensource.org/docs/osd

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#424

Post by deergomoo »

woahAcademia wrote: post #262
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main reason to run hackintosh as far as I know is to write software for macOS or iOS. I suspect a lot of Hackintoshes users do so because they like using macOS day-to-day, but don't see anything appealing in Apple's hardware lineup. I'm one of them.

What makes MacOS good?

It's a *nix with real Office and Photoshop

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#425

Post by nspattak »

krageon wrote: post #421
jseliger wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd suspect, though, that most Linux people who considered running it on Apple hardware just shrugged and picked very similar PC hardware instead. Apple's m1 computers have no PC analogue and may not for some time. I've not used one but it appears they really are different, and better, than anything else in their class.

> Apple's m1 computers have no PC analogue And they don't need to. There's hardware available that works just as well, the buzzy marketing space around M1 is just that: marketing. Nobody needs this.

As much as I do not really care about apple machines (and I neither own neither plan to own in the near future) it seems that the M1 laptops have a significant advantage in power consumption over amd64 laptops. And as a linux user, this is only gets worst with linux. I agree however that from a performance perspective the M1 seems to be competitive but not much faster than existing amd64 products.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#426

Post by cbozeman »

simonh wrote: post #385
higerordermap wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> industry leading device lifetimes Like 5 years. Android equivalents have 3 years because Qualcomm is shit, it's not Android's fault. > premium long lasting second hand market value Because they are fashionable. Apple has capitalised on stupidity of people. Most people owning MacBooks, for example, are better served with a chromebook. Apple is a proprietary ecosystem. If Google are demonized for keeping data of user…

Oh right, you know what these hundreds of millions people actually need better than they do themselves and they are all idiots, so none of the evidence counts. Discussion over. I'm done.

Are you really going to argue that you need a $1500 laptop to write Ruby code while you sit in Starbucks?

You're fuckin' signaling, period... and the poster above you knows it. I know it. Its about showing you "fit in". You're part of a certain class of people. Its stupid and humanity needs to move past it.

You know why I built a new computer on 7/7/2019 using an AMD R9 3900X chip? Because it was literally over 300% faster than my E3-1231v3 Xeon, that's why. It wasn't about "signaling" that I'm "hip" because I have AMD, it was because it cut my build times measurably and literally made me more productive.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#427

Post by cbozeman »

simonh wrote: post #392
fsflover wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is this whimsical company, and how exactly does it make money? https://puri.sm/products

What is the point of having the right to repair a phone that, 3 years after it's crowd funding campaign, now has 5 year old hardware, still can't reliably make calls and has a sub 2 hour battery life?

What's the point?

You own it. You control it. YOU have the power. That's the damn point.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#428

Post by cookiengineer »

sbuk wrote: post #384
cookiengineer wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we are talking about that Apple which integrated soft fuses that can be triggered remotely, and will brick your device physically. We are talking about that Apple which sued a recycling vendor in Canada because they recycled devices instead of trashing them. We are talking about that Apple which bribed judges in the US to deny its endusers the right to repair. We are talking about that Apple which removed even t…

>Yes, we are talking about that Apple which integrated soft fuses that can be triggered remotely, and will brick your device physically. Care to expand on that? > We are talking about that Apple which sued a recycling vendor in Canada because they recycled devices instead of trashing them. That's incorrect. They sued the company because they were supposed to take the devices apart and recycle/recover the parts. Not r…

> Care to expand on that? (brick your device physically)

The lock feature is implemented via iCloud and the "Find My Mac" page, which is able to remotely shut the soft fuses via BIOS/EFI, and in return physically bricks the hardware. Anybody that has control over your iCloud account (e.g. a malicious third party) can potentially do this. See [1], this happened to a lot of companies (customers) that had problems with malicious third-parties getting access to their network.

> That's incorrect. They sued the company because they were supposed to take the devices apart and recycle/recover the parts. Not resell them as manufacturer refurbished.

How come that they could only prove that by having more than 18% of devices that were sent to be trashed with active GPS antennas, and active remote iCloud software tracking? [2] Also, recycle is defined as re-cycling, not re-abandoning. The definition of recycling among the population seems to be a different perception than yours.

Do you honestly think Apple would've dropped the lawsuit if the devices would've been repaired and given away for free? Also kind of related: The lawsuit that happened in Norway, where Rossmann was called as a witness [4]

> They took out the headphone jack because wires are a pain in the ass and the state of the art for wireless headsets is good enough for the majority.

Literally a couple months after PayPal and other payment providers were banned by removing the headphone jack in the 8th gen iPhone, Apple Pay was introduced. You're making it sound like 2 or 3 tiny low-voltage wires are harder to implement than a Bluetooth antenna wiring... c'mon, really?

> (history of default shells in macOS)

You're making it sound as if bash was only inside macOS for a short time. bash, for the sake of argument, has been in use since macOS 10.2 which was released in 2002 [3], whereas 10.0 was a public beta and 10.1 was released the same year in 2001. The argument of a tcsh being in use for 9 months, and bash being in use for over 19 years is quite the opposite way around than you seem to perceive it.

=========

[1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208987

[2] https://www.theverge.com/apple/2020/10/4/21499422/apple-sues...

[3] https://opensource.apple.com/release/mac-os-x-102.html

[4] https://repair.eu/de/news/apple-crushes-one-man-repair-shop/

=========

Again, my arguments were to counteract the argument that "Apple is acting in good faith for the people", because I do not think that anything innovative can happen on a crippled platform.

Apple actively shuts down innovation, every time it could be seen as an alternative to their own product, which they will release only once market adaption has been done by pioneers. This was happening a lot of times with hardware, and a lot of times with software.

I personally would choose repairability over anything, always, because I've learned my lessons the hard way with financial burdens.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#429

Post by iso1631 »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #166
squarefoot wrote: post #94

No, I wouldn't, not even if I could print billions in a snap. I'd rather help funding the port to a 10 times slower but open platform, rather to a technically superior but proprietary close one whose owner would make it incompatible two seconds after they would smell competition from Linux in any of their core business fields. No thanks, I'll send my small quid to whomever appears to be really in favor of openness, n…

Lol they highlighted running Linux in the first announcement of the ISA switch , they see no threat in Linux at all. Their business model would need to change dramatically for that to happen. They’re a hardware company that makes the hardware more attractive with software, service and device integration. Their software restrictions are part of the value proposition, but anyone fully ejecting from that would be on the…

> Lol they highlighted running Linux in the first announcement of the ISA switch, they see no threat in Linux at all

First they ignore you

Then they laugh at you

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#430

Post by krageon »

nspattak wrote: post #425
krageon wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple's m1 computers have no PC analogue And they don't need to. There's hardware available that works just as well, the buzzy marketing space around M1 is just that: marketing. Nobody needs this.

As much as I do not really care about apple machines (and I neither own neither plan to own in the near future) it seems that the M1 laptops have a significant advantage in power consumption over amd64 laptops. And as a linux user, this is only gets worst with linux. I agree however that from a performance perspective the M1 seems to be competitive but not much faster than existing amd64 products.

I have had 24h+ battery life on a 64bit x86_64 machine - clearly good battery life is possible already.

Edit: Yes, this was with the lid open and me doing things. Not videogames, just some light coding.

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