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Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

helsinkibusinesshub.fi

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Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#421

Post by kioleanu »

I'm reading some very interesting comments regarding learning the language. As an expat in a non-english speaking country myself, I have just one piece of advice: if you are considering moving to a foreign country and you don't speak the language, start learning it the moment you have taken the decision to move.

Think of it like playing a game: no language = hard mode, no access to hidden quests, always stuck in the low tier. language = medium mode, access to all the maps, NPCs are friendlier.

In my experience, based on how hard the language is, you will see great results after investing 500-600 hours into it.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#422

Post by msh »

Devils-Avocado wrote: post #27
brryant wrote: post #2

This is honestly a great way for tech entrepreneurs to experience Nordic living. The fact is Finland has one of the most startup friendly environments around: — top schools (Aalto U. produces incredibly talented engineers) — startup friendly ecosystem (cheap rents, cheap internet) — Finnish work culture (direct, no nonsense, hard working but balanced) — fantastic food and beverage scene in downtown Helsinki My wife i…

Also: 24% VAT (sales tax) 18% employer payroll taxes 10% employee payroll taxes 20-30% typical income tax Take your American disposable income and cut it in half. Still worth it for 'free' education and 'free' healthcare? Also a lot of cold and darkness.

Why do you put free in quotes?

Weather its wort it is still a personal question, but my education was certainly free including my masters degree (I even got paid a stipend to study like everyone else).

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#423

Post by outime »

I've been living in Finland for close to 10 years and I'm from Spain. Came to study an university degree and stayed after that.

If you're pretty young and you work in FAANG then stay where you are and save money. When you get older and want to form a family then move here.

Another option is if you're living in a poorer country and you want to pursue a degree (for EU people it's free) or have a decent tech job (stress is the lowest here, pay is good if you don't compare to FAANG). Spain is good to hang out and socialize but when it comes to work it's usually miserable so it was an easy decision for me since I can visit the country often while my daily life has been simplified a lot.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#424

Post by eru »

trevyn wrote: post #254
eru wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't underestimate the convenience factor. It can save a lot of hassle, if you know that your first 90 days of accommodation in a foreign country with a strange language is taken care of.

I'm willing to bet that Airbnb monthly is just as convenient.

If still legal, yes.

But they also sort out some other paperwork, I assume.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#425

Post by eru »

astura wrote: post #223
eru wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private dental visits shouldn't cost you more than a few hundred quid per year on average. (In a sane country.) So they would only justify perhaps about 0.1% higher taxes?

For just routine cleanings, sure. If you need work done it can get real expensive.

Hence me saying 'on average'. In a sane country, you can use insurance to convert variable payments into average payments (plus a bit of overhead).

Or, you just self-insure for dental, if you make a reasonable amount of money or have some savings.

(It's much more feasible for dental where the realistic maximum amounts are still quite small, compared to cancer treatment or similar.)

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#426

Post by username90 »

cbmuser wrote: post #351
deanclatworthy wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has lived in this environment for this long, it doesn't work that way. This is not a language that shares any traits with English. It is hard to get going, and the vocabulary takes a considerable amount of time. You can't switch to Finnish at work, as you simply would not be able to get by, and you can't do it at home as it changes the dynamics of your relationship. This is not an excuse, it's reality.

I don’t buy that. Japanese is completely different, too, but I learned most of it while in Japan where I was forced to speak it. Finish kids don’t need ten years to learn the language either, do they?

It isn't the same thing, if you try to speak poor Finnish in Finland they just switch to English since most people speak English. In Japan most people don't even understand basic spoken English so getting them to speak Japanese with you is really easy.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#427

Post by tekkk »

deanc wrote: post #190

Overall my experience in Helsinki has been hugely positive. I’ve been here now over a decade and have settled with work and family life. Work life balance is great, there’s a beautiful outdoors to enjoy all year, and the people are warm and kind, if not difficult to start with. All that said, there’s a lot of bullshit and hot air here in this thread: - public healthcare is great until you have something difficult to…

That are some really good points. I would also add, that while you lose on the money you could earn as a developer compared to eg SV (or Zurich), you get in turn a comfortable life without being forced into believing that money equals happiness. You won't live in poverty of course, but it's telling that many Finnish companies consider their cheap engineers to be one of their main advantages.

However, if you enjoy family life I would say Finland and Helsinki area are really great places to raise your children. If you enjoy getting rich as an elite programmer, maybe SV would be a better match.

I think part of it is cultural too, and if you are a sort of honest type who enjoys actually working socialism I think you'll find the way of life easier to adapt. Learning Finnish as an adult is difficult (especially if your SO is not a Finn) but certainly in Helsinki area there are a lot of companies that have only-English speaking employees. Really good tech-workers will always find a job if they can just bother applying hard enough. IT-consultancies here seem to attract most of the tech-talent.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#428

Post by bradlys »

theshrike79 wrote: post #334
howlgarnish wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but if you're starting a family, essentially free child care and schooling up to and including university is pretty nice. Hell, if you're accepted for full-time studies at University, the government pays you to keep studying (opintoraha).

This is the correct answer. If you're a single software engineer, don't come to Helsinki. Go to SV or somewhere where they pay you mid six figures to work your ass off 16 hours a day. But if you're either too old to find that exciting or have children, Finland is a great place to live. Just the subsidised child care itself will make it worth it. No "college funds" either.

Once you get into the big companies, not all teams are work yourself to bone. Many people work 40 hour weeks (with an hour long lunch included in that time) and have very little to no responsibilities outside of core hours. Vacation time can be quite decent as well. (4+ weeks plus quite a few holidays)

Even the unicorn startups don’t always work you to the bone. Honestly, I see it more like many people who /want/ to do that end up in that position because they want that stuff. It makes them feel like they’re doing something with their life (usually because they have an empty life outside of work).

I mean, think about the effort it takes to get into some of these companies. You don’t do it because you’re just a regular person who wants a well paying job. You’re career oriented - your career dictates your life satisfaction. That’s why you’ll work yourself to the bone - because it’s what you wanna do. This area attracts that mentality massively.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#429

Post by eru »

hestefisk wrote: post #186
eru wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have lower taxes (than in America) and excellent public services in Singapore. Eat your cake and have it, too. Very startup friendly as well and excellent food. The tropical weather takes a bit of getting used to, though. I much prefer gloomy European skies.

I live in Singapore and my experience is healthcare is extremely expensive unless you have insurance (which I have). Schools for expats are incredibly expensive too unless you want to put them in local ones. Cost of living is very high. I pay SGD 6000/mo to live centrally but with no trees around me.

We pay 3000 SGD for 1,200 square feet right next to the CBD. Plenty of trees around here, too.

(We are looking for someone to take over our lease by the way, as we are moving into a bigger place.)

In the last few years I usually paid out of pocket for any medical treatments.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#430

Post by eru »

andreareina wrote: post #270
hestefisk wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Singapore and my experience is healthcare is extremely expensive unless you have insurance (which I have). Schools for expats are incredibly expensive too unless you want to put them in local ones. Cost of living is very high. I pay SGD 6000/mo to live centrally but with no trees around me.

Most parts of the city I've been to have patches of green at least. I guess the core CBD doesn't have much but even a little bit outside (River Valley, Tanjong Pagar) are quite nice. What area are you in?

Even the CBD has quite a few spots of green, I find.
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