Related discussion of the court ruling: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24268176.
Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
421–430 of 639 posts
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#422Could someone explain what was Apple trying to do? I really don't get their position in this story. It seemed obvious that trying to completely block Epic's Unreal Engine would be causing more legal issues. What is their strategy here? It feels that they actually wanted things to escalate, though I cannot see why they would do this.
Apple threatened to revoke Epic’s “Apple Developer” account due to repeated violations of the developer policy and agreement. I am sure Apple did it to try and bully Epic into settling.
Both Apple and Google will pull people’s developer accounts for this kind of misbehavior. Epic isn’t special in this regard.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#423Some of my highlights: - "Irreparable Harm: The issue of irreparable harm focuses on the harm caused by not maintaining the status quo, as opposed to the separate and distinct element of a remedy under the likelihood of success factor. Here the court's evaluation is guided by the general notion that “self-inflicted wounds are not irreparable injury.” - "While the Court anticipates experts will opine that Apple’s 30 p…
>"Irreparable Harm: The issue of irreparable harm focuses on the harm caused by not maintaining the status quo, as opposed to the separate and distinct element of a remedy under the likelihood of success factor. Here the court's evaluation is guided by the general notion that “self-inflicted wounds are not irreparable injury.”
To add more color to this, the court refused an injunction to force Apple to enable Fortnite with the Epic payment processing. Epic can remove that and be admitted back to the App store. If Apple refuses at that point Epic would likely win an injunction to force them.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#424Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I write an app that includes the Facebook SDK, that doesn't mean that Facebook is involved with submitting my app. As long as my developer account is valid, Facebook's account doesn't enter the equation when I am submitting an app that includes their SDK in any way I can see. Can someone shed more light on this?
Facebook can't give you their SDK without having their own developer account.
They don't appear to be having any difficulty sharing their SDK code publicly through GitHub.
https://github.com/facebook/facebook-ios-sdk
Or, more conveniently, through a dependency manager like CocoaPods.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#425Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Nobody is forcing you to use a 3rd party app store, but Apple is forcing everyone to go through their store. Many employers do that very thing. How many people have been compelled by employment circumstances to install Zoom despite its dubious pedigree? What happens when a corporate timecard app exists only in a 3rd party app store?
Zoom works on the web and when I did install the app, I installed it on my iPad. I wouldn’t let Zoom go anywhere near my computer.
Alas for the lack of breakout rooms when hosting from an iPad.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#426Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Perhaps it's time for some major app makers to have a day or two where they pull their apps. Epic's actions with Fortnite were effectively this. They were aware Apple would pull the app, but that them doing so would give them clear standing to sue Apple for the contract terms. For even a lot of "major" app makers though, pulling their apps off iOS in protest would put them out of business. (Even where Android excel…
If Snapchat, Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp, PayPal were all pulled for 2 days at the same time, and then put back up, it would make a huge international stink, global headlines to raise awareness. Literally Joe Biden would hear about it. Same day take out an editorial or page-sized ad in the Times. Apple needs apps as much as apps need them, it just takes enough coordination.
Prisoner's Dilemma is in action here. Pulling your app actually costs you money.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#427A victory for sanity. Apple threatening developmental licenses and anyone who used the Unreal Engine was nothing short of mafia-esque, and just as obviously Fortnite being restored to the app store is a matter for Epic's lawsuit against apple.
It would have been more of a victory if Apple followed through with the action, because repercussions would have hit far and wide. Fortnite's entrapment move was powerful because Apple's actions are more exemplary than their threats. Perhaps it's time for some major app makers to have a day or two where they pull their apps.
I agree that a co-ordinated effort could work, however, to cause Apple the maximum amount of brand/financial damage, it should be timed to the release of the new iPhones.
If Spotify, Youtube and Netflix all pulled their apps a day after the release of the next phone, Apple would be in serious trouble that year. It would effectively permanently devalue their phones and by proxy Apple, because consumers wouldn't be able to trust that that it wouldn't happen again. It would certainly spook investors.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#428Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even if that's the case, a legal and economics competition between those block owners sounds like a positive thing! A more dynamic market is what I want as a developer and consumer.
Heh, I don't see anything dynamic here. You basically choose between two prison cells instead of having an open market where the platform isn't more than a side note. You can just have no block owners at all. Having two competing kings fighting over the throne isn't "dynamic" democracy.
> Having two competing kings fighting over the throne isn't "dynamic" democracy.
a) it is more dynamic than a situation with one king just sitting on his laurels
b) this is not about democracy, this is about competition on markets
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#429Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s no game. Uber didn’t like the rules of the state - it’s leaving the state. That’s a perfectly logical thing to do.
If Uber shareholders thought that they were walking away from all revenue in the state of California their shares would tank. We all know this is brinksmanship. I know it. You know it. They aren't leaving CA. The goal here is to get the "other side" to blink and adjust the rules so they can continue to operate. But at the end of the day Uber isn't abandoning the California ride share market to its competitors. Be rea…
Uber is using their weight to get what they want, because they know we want them to continue offering service. This is actually quite a bit like having a raise negotiation at work. I don't see their goals as evil, either, simply at odds with the state.
Their shareholders likely suspect California will capitulate. Though it is hard to do research over whether their drivers actually want this, generally the information I see indicates they'd prefer to remain contractors. Yes, some of this is paid for by Uber. I imagine some of the content I read was also paid for by the opposition. But it seems like no matter how you cut it, the drivers generally want to remain contractors, and definitely do not want ~their livelihood~ an income source threatened either way in the midst of a pandemic.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#430Earlier quoted context omitted.
Zoom works on the web and when I did install the app, I installed it on my iPad. I wouldn’t let Zoom go anywhere near my computer.
Alas for the lack of breakout rooms when hosting from an iPad.
Yes. That bit my wife. She loved her iPad but we ended up getting a laptop solely for Zoom and zoom rooms for some volunteer work she does.
Off topic rant: I was going to get her Dell. I had forgotten how bad the consumer Dells were. By the time you get a decent one, you might as well get a MacBook Air.